Home Milwaukee Bucks Sunday Dec 30 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    How is it the Pistons have an offense that is clogged and limited by it's young big men while simultaneously suffering from having a score first point guard?

    Shouldn't that be a workable combo? (Provided Knight could make some plays which he apparently can't.)
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Yes, Drummond should come in quicker, but no, it would not help any since our starting unit has so little outside shooting and Drummond is a worse outside shooter than JMAX. It would be better if Tay simply did not start, so we could get another strong outside shooter into the game. And an upgrade for Singler would not hurt either. If we did both, we could start Monroe with Drummond.

    Yes, I found that timeout odd.

    Not getting anywhere finding out what our best really is - you know, you are preaching to the choir on that.

    And as for adding a good player hurting the team - that is a pretty bad slam on the coach. If you get a good player, it should improve the team. But not just this coach, but the last one too - could never seem to figure out how to use players to best advantage.

    Case in point. JJ does great as Tay's replacement at small forward. But to this day, we have not tried to use JJ as the backup small forward after Tay came back from his injury. So, instead of making a good thing out of Tay returning, we end up playing JJ out of position at power forward, hurting the team badly, just because a player returned.
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I don't want to say I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO :ner-ner: . The Kid just doesn't have it, he's another Darren Collison or DJ Augustin. Maybe in a best case scenario he can pull it together like Mike Conley did, but I doubt it. The kid just isn't very good to me, not a total scrub, but definitely not an NBA starter on a good team.
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Speaking of JJ.......a 2nd unit of:
    Bynum / Daye / JJ / CV / Drummond is a unit I'd like to see. Much like Bynum, I feel that JJ has too much to offer to rot on the bench night after night.

    It's funny, CV is not a complete BoT with Andre Drummond on the floor, he's actually a serviceable NBA player.......Drum is special! And I was NO FAN of his at UConn, but with the 9th pick....hey......go for it.
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  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    After reeling off 5 straight 20+ point games in early December (and getting 1 W against a depleted CLE team), Knight goes 8 games in a row under 20 points on 27-89 shooting (eFG of .371). 30 assists to 23 turnovers. And 2 steals in 8 games as a starting PG? Come on man.

    It's not just the combo of the starting unit, we got to see him mix with the movers and shakers on the bench unit tonight and the air went out of it when he replaced Bynum.

    I just don't know. Worried about it.

    I'm wondering if there really is any development at the NBA level or if it is all just fake Drummond type development where it takes coaches a while to trust players and let them play their games.
  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    When Bynum left with about 5 minutes left (I think he was hurt), I knew the lead was in trouble. Knight and Tay (to help Knight with the ball) came in, and I believe Daye went out. The offense stagnated. What saved the game is that Bynum came back in with about 1 minute left and ran the offense.

    Now, Bynum is not a point guard but a scorer, and is too small and can easily be trapped but he looks like a point guard when compared with Knight and Stuckey.

    You know who should close games for their recent play? Drummond, CV, Daye and Bynum. Now, I have never been a fan of Daye or Bynum or CV. But they are playing at a higher level than Singler, Knight and Maxiel. They should be rewarded for their play. They are out-skilling their counterparts for the moment. I would put either Monroe or Tay or Stuckey as the 5th person on that closing squad.
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Tonight I think I watched about 3 or 4 plays NOT happen because he couldn't get the ball under control.
  8. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    TaShawn:- Knight just can't get anybody on the team an easy bucket while Bynum gets Drummond lobs, Monroe wide open J's, and the twin spacers plenty of good looks. After watching how it's done, I'm coming around to the fact that we have a point guard problem that won't ever be filled by Knight. The only way it works is an alternative model with Monroe point forwarding at the high post... which I'm not counting on. The offense with the starters is a total grind right now because of him.
    -

    TaShawn: We have a point guard problem.
  9. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Knight was given the starting job by default. He was a high draft pick and a possible franchise piece. I supported that last year and early this year. I think the organization still thinks highly of him. I am not saying he can't be a serious piece. But right now, his skill set is not developed and he really hasn't earned his starting job or all the minutes he is getting. You were right to notice that his stint with the second unit was not productive for that unit either. They need to scale back his role and let the kid have time to develop.

    And the organization needs to take into account the development of Drummond. Drummond type talent is at another level. There are a few players that come into the league and make immediate impact. One announcer from an opposing team said of Drummmond, "he is already a load and he doesn't even know how to play yet." Drummond will need a point guard to get him the ball. I think the organization has no choice but to go after a point for next year. Leaving it only up to Knight is too risky for the entire team. The position is too important.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It seems like best way to test whether a guy is a scorer or passer is to look at the ratio between baskets made and assists.

    Bynum has 70 field goals on the year and 65 assists. That seems like a pretty nice balance to me.

    How does it compare to others though?


    Ultimate point guard:
    Chris Paul: 167 to 283

    Our Franchise's most recent Finals MVP (2004 year):
    Chauncey Billups: 392 to 446

    The guy who made CB expendable (career figures):
    Rodney Stuckey: 1,739 to 1,539

    Our current starting PG:
    Brandon Knight: 150 to 151

    Average NBA point guard (15th in ast/tov ratio this year):
    Luke Ridnour: 117 to 118



    So, the ultimate point guard passes more than he scores. A Championship scoring point guard like Billups also does so, but to a lesser extent. Knight and Bynum are guys who equally balance scoring and passing... as does a guy like Luke Ridnour. Stuckey is a guy that scores first and passes 2nd, but partially because he's played a lot of SG.


    Even though Chauncey passed more, his ratio wasn't that extreme. A guy like Knight could probably play that way if he was convinced to do so. However, in Knight, I'm not seeing a guy that refuses to pass the ball, just that his passes aren't usable by the guy that gets them. He's dumping it off to guys, not setting them up in any way.

    With Bynum, at least he uses his scoring ability to draw defenders and it makes his passes really effective. He runs the option every time and takes what the defense gives him. If he had Knight's 3-point shooting ability and height, he'd be a monster.
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  11. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Have fantasied that if Bynum got 2.5 " taller and Stuckey had played in a consist system in his first 3 years.
  12. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    My first thought when the starters entered the game in the final minutes: "Here goes the win."

    It's gone so far that I cheer everytime Max misses a shot, rebound or the best of all, gets an early foul, because I want him off the floor.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Pistons have got to fire Frank. It is time to get a legitimate coach in there with Drummond lurking. You can't hand the keys to someone who used to fetch Steve Alford a Gatorade or rub his groin when it got sore.

    He played less than 20 minutes last night!
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I love it every time JMAX hits a shot. So it balances out.
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  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So, you are now back OFF the Knight bandwagon? You change your mind more often than Drath changes his socks a lot.
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Drummond just said last night that he agrees with the pace that he is being brought along. Also, didn't the Pistons win last night?
  17. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    Im not sure how much weight I would put into the quotes from a 19 yr old that is trying to do anything to please the coach. I more than anyone would like to see Frank walking down I75, but as long as he is willing to play the youth I am gonna bite my tongue and grit my teeth as we see the strangest rotations in sports.
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    No, I was never on it, however for a short stint I did ease up on the kid and give him a break.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Drummond is a smart kid.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That totally counts. Lack of criticism = love in Larry Brown's book.
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