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Home Milwaukee Bucks Sunday Dec 30 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    vs Milwaukee Bucks

    Sunday Dec 30 2012 - 7:30 PM EST


    Palace of Auburn Hills, Detroit, MI

    TV: FS Detroit

    RADIO: 97.1FM

    GO PISTONS!
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Mooooooo
     
  3. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    lets see if our second unit can do it again
     
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is there a soul out there not named Lawrence Frank and not affiliated with the other NBA teams looking forward to the Pistons starters playing?

    This is like fighting your way through your peas as a kid so you can eat dessert afterward.
     
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  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Starters were solid in the 3rd quarter yesterday against the Heat.
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Pistons will lose this game...........look to Larry for the reasons why.........
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I like peas.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You kind of get the feeling the announcers are hinting at changes needed - when they mention , like Bynum did, that the 2nd unit is so good because of all the outside shooters opening things up. So in that vain of thought - like I ever need a reason, here is a rotation coach could use for the game.

    Start Knight, English, Singler, Monroe, Drummond.

    2nd unit: Stuckey (or Bynum if Stuckey is out), Daye, Tay, CV, Kravtsov

    This leaves out either Stuckey or Bynum, Maggette, Middleton, JJ, and JMAX

    Or, make a decision to play youth only:

    Start: Knight, English, Singler, Monroe, Drummond

    2nd unit: Stuckey (or Bynum if Stuckey is out), Middleton, Daye, Kravtsov, (rotates between Drummond and Monroe playing with the 2nd unit)

    One more:

    Start, and play for 40 minutes, this unit:

    Knight, Middleton, Daye, Monroe, Drummond

    For 4 minutes each half, centered around the quarter breaks: Stuckey (or Bynum), English, Singler, CV, Kravtsov

    And one more, assuming Stuckey is healthy, and we resign Macklin:

    Start Knight, Middleton, Daye, Monroe, Drummond

    2nd unit: Stuckey, English, Singler, Macklin, Kravtsov

    Trade Tay, JMAX, CV, JJ, Bynum, and Singler if you can get upgrades to the 2nd unit at small forward, power forward, and center. If you can't, make due with what we got and make the playoffs.
     
  9. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Paying close attention to Prince and Daye this game. Prince is playing very well, not forcing anything, but making plays. When he plays like this, he's tough to beat. Daye is playing good, but his help defense is horrendous. It seems like he doesn't know what to do.

    Bynum is hard to watch.
     
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    There is just something odd about Frank. I get the feeling that he thinks CCG, Daye et al are carrying Drummond. It seems important to him to be playing them.
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Pistons jumped off to a 13-0 lead and then temporarily let the Bucks back in it allowing a 17-6 run to get them back within 2 points, before the bench came in and extended the lead out to 7 to end the first qtr. The Pistons maintained 10-13 pt lead the rest of the half and held a 10 pt half time lead.

    In fact the Pistons did not have any real issues until about 5 mins left in the game when the roof caved in and the Bucks hit three shots beyond the arc to tie the game at 92 with about a minute and a half left in the game. Meanwhile the Pistons were having all types of issues with turnovers and missed shots with the starters in there during the last few minutes, but it was Tay who after getting fouled on the ISoTay, who hit the game winning FT's to save what would have been a coaching loss.

    Max and Moose each got double-doubles with 10 boards each. Tay led the team in scoring getting most of his 20 points during the opening first quarter run.

    Good way to close out the year with 4 out of 5 wins....even if two were against the Wizards, the other two were vs world champs and the Bucks who opened today as the 4th seed in the east. Something to build on with all of these home games coming up....
     
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Another quality win, against a team that just wallopped Miami last night.

    Our starters were good enough. Monroe and JMAX each had double doubles, although toward the meager end as far as double doubles go. But still double doubles. Tay scored 20, including our last 4 points when we had to have them. Singler was plus for the game, despite shooting poorly. He had a hard time sometimes keeping up with their guards, but Singler was a load for their guards to guard. Made em work on the defensive end, even if we did not get that many points from Singler. Him hitting all 4 of his free throws was a big plus. We could not afford to miss many free throws tonight. Yeah, we don't have the biggest starting unit in the league exactly, but its bigger than Milwaukees.

    Going with Bynum paired with Knight - with our starting unit - is bad news. It hurt us both halves. We went with that though for the last couple of plays. Hey, doing something for just a moment you can get away with. However, rather than complain too much, I will note that coach did something needed, he put in English for 6 minutes to give us a decent defender on Ellis. Sure, of course Ellis scored on him - but at least he had to work to score. In contrast, although I really don't want to pick on Will when he has done so well the last couple of games - Ellis had just hit a pair of triples over Will, who might as well not even been in the game for all the good Will can do to alter Ellis' shot any. Bynum also hit some closer in shots himself to help negate some of what he gave up.

    Our bench looked smooth, practiced. It was not out there nearly as much as the last couple of games, but they were slightly positive - good enough to help get the win vs. hurt us any. Of course, our starters were slightly negative, so you could stretch it a bit and say the bench won this one. Bynum and Knight were also paired up to run our bench - but our bench has CV and Daye to nail 3's - a much better setup. Oh, and Milwaukee's bench does not really drop off that much from its starters, and starters were out there against our bench plenty. Don't try to imagine that our bench only did well because it was playing the other team's 2nd unit. Like in the two previous games, our bench played pretty well, regardless of who the other team had on the floor.

    Drummond's steal and dunk was pretty awesome to watch. Again, he just took it down himself after the steal. The ball was being passed around on the perimeter and he just darted out there and picked it off. Bynum connected for a dunk for Drummond. Drummond I believe got his other 4 points on putbacks.

    Daye only took two shots, hit them both. For this game, he was not called upon to chase any guards. (Though Daniels is really a 3rd guard in their 3 guard starting unit.)

    The one 3 CV took was like from another planet. Yes, that far out, and he confidently nailed it. He also on one 3 caught, turned and shot in seemingly one motion. The guy is flat out hot shooting the long ball to no end.

    The Pistons started out ahead 13-0. Knight ended up negative though - pretty much all due to getting paired up with Bynum and the other starters in each half- where leads we had shrunk quick. (Well, especially in the first half.) Knight hit 2 triples early, and hit a floater on a drive in. After that, not much from him that I can remember. Though he did guard Ellis well on that last shot, missed by Ellis, that let us escape with a win.

    Our starters all came back in for the last few minutes. And neither team was scoring for a while, but Milwaukee did score just a bit to take a lead. Then Tay got his 4, the last 2 on clutch free throw shooting. Its been a trend of late, that a lot of Pistons have been routinely missing their free throws. Indeed, we typically miss our technical foul free throws these days. Pretty bad. Within all that though, Tay, and JMAX, continue to make them. Anyway, the free throws put us up 2, with 10 seconds to play. After giving an intential foul real quick, I guess just to see what play they wanted to run - Ellis took the last 9 seconds to get his shot off and miss it, and that was the game.

    Do not actually recall if it was Jennings or Ellis who nailed that pair of 3's over Will.
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Singler has been part of the bench since the season started. Even since he began starting, Singler is also often seen backing up Tay. Bynum began the year as a regular bench player, lost his spot, to nobody actually - they just dropped him out of the rotation. Later, Daye was added. To start CV never played. He started playing several games before Daye though. Maggette did not play at first, due to injury. Then, despite the injury, we played him a bit, looking to get a veteran out there to steady the squad. But that did not last. The one guy who started as a bench player, and who simply has disappeared from the rotation, is JJ. (English also played a bit early, and then dissapeared from the rotation after Maggette was added.)

    So in all, who was our bench then, and now. To start the season, Bynum, English, Drummond, JJ, Singler. Then Stuckey got hurt a few games, Stuckey ended up giving up his starting role to Singler and became part of the bench.

    Bench now: Stuckey (maybe Bynum too, we will see.), Daye, Singler (both starting and a bench player), CV, Drummond. Outside of the first, what, 10 games, Stuckey, Singler and Drummond have been regular part of our bench. CV and Daye have been added. Bynum is making a strong case these past few games.

    And finally, what I would like to see off the bench: Tay, JMAX, Stuckey, Kravtsov, English, Singler, CV, Bynum, JJ. With none of them playing every game. But playing.

    Start: Knight, Middleton, Daye, Monroe, Drummond. As good as we have been the last couple of games, in beating Miami and then a team that just wallopped Miami last night, I believe we can be better.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Man the Bucks can really spread the floor and knock down tough shots. It appeared unlikely that we were going to hang on there before Tay kind of bailed us out with a clutch hook shot on one possession and then drawing a comical foul on our last possession (where he drew 3 defenders who all took turns fouling him, knocking him to the ground, and then all falling on him domino style). The Bucks are clearly a quality team and this very easily could have been the 3rd straight win against a playoff team if we would have had a little more in the tank in the ATL game.

    Our bench quartet had another unbelievable shooting night with an eFG of .696 (vs .441 for the starters). It appeared as though Charlie had cooled off after whiffing on his first 2 attempts, but then he went all weird again and starting hitting a bunch of ill advised attempts.

    The 13-0 start sure beat the 0-10 start that we had in the Miami game.

    One thing that the box score doesn't show, but that did happen, is that Singler was blocked at least 6 times tonight. 3 show up in the box score, but he was blocked 3 times consecutively and then multiple other times throughout the night. The 6 offensive boards are pretty much a by-product of his 2-11 shooting due to getting packed. His FT trips both came after calls where he was also blocked and didn't appear to be fouled. He missed short and left on 2 wide open baseline 3's in a short stretch. He did have 3 steals though, which were a rare commodity tonight.

    Other random thoughts:
    - reffing was the worst I've seen in a while. Way too many phantom fouls.
    - Knight just can't get anybody on the team an easy bucket while Bynum gets Drummond lobs, Monroe wide open J's, and the twin spacers plenty of good looks. After watching how it's done, I'm coming around to the fact that we have a point guard problem that won't ever be filled by Knight. The only way it works is an alternative model with Monroe point forwarding at the high post... which I'm not counting on. The offense with the starters is a total grind right now because of him.
    - I noticed pretty early on that Tay wasn't pump faking and looked for it the rest of the game, but didn't see it. I think that he's on the wagon. He was also doing a lot of backdowns tonight ala 2003 breakout Tay. It's exhausting doing that, but he might want to summon up the energy and shorten his overall PT because it makes him a much more dangerous player.
    - It was a short stint and he was playing against an offensive force, but English looked tiny and got singled out for isolations the entire time he was in.
    - Nice bounce back game from Maxiell. Team leader in boards with a few key tap outs that he didn't get credit for. He has as many assists as our starting PG. And he was efficient from the field.
     
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  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Knight does not appear to be looking to pass IMO..if he drives to the paint, 90% of the time he is going to take the shot himself. if he is outside the arc, and open he will take the shot. Nothing wrong with that if you are confident and one of the team leaders in 3pt fg %, but other players not named Charlie will find an open man closer to the hoop to pass to.
     
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    To whom would Knight pass the ball to? The lane is clogged. Singler is missing his outside shots. Tay is just going to pull the ball out and set something up - which is what Knight is suppose to do only there is nothing to set up. What, pass it to Monroe and watch him clang one? Ditto for JMAX. Look, if you got guys like JMAX and Monroe taking outside jumpers - and note, they are just 2 pointers anyway, you are in trouble. In contrast, Bynum has it made. Daye and CV are in there. Singler too who at least does knock down some of his shots. And Drummond looking to slam one. Not to mention tons of space to drive in, cause the lane is anything but clogged.

    Knight is not the problem. The problem is that this coach is way slow in tinkering with things to improve them. As long as the starters function halfway ok, don't look for Frank to do a thing.

    Remember, it was worse. To start the season, Stuckey was the shooting guard, and while Singler is not the most consistent outside shooter, Stuckey is nowheresville. And the change was made not by the coach, but by Stuckey. What we strongly need is for JMAX, and Tay, to likewise pull themselves out of the starting unit. Move Singler up to small forward, start English, and replace JMAX with Drummond.

    But I will repeat my favorite choice for a starting unit: Knight, Middleton, Daye, Monroe, Drummond. Why? Lets look at this game. Singler started, had trouble following around the quicker guards of Milwaukee. Middleton would have had no problem with that, has a lot of length to bother their shots, and would have destroyed Milwaukee's smallish lineup by driving it in. Daye is Daye. A guy you want to see taking 3's. I hear Middleton can shoot too by the way, but I have not had the privilege of seeing him shoot much. Then you got the Drummond / Monroe pair. Someone mentioned that per minute, this pair is both the top defensive and offensive rebounding pair in the league. They both can pass to each other. Monroe can shoot just a little from midrange to keep the lane unclogged just enough. A lot of the success of this unit will depend on just how good Middleton is on his outside shots - but with Middleton's slashing, I think we will have all the offense we need. Basically, the other team is going to have to use 3 guys to block out Monroe and Drummond from scoring. Someone on the perimeter between Knight, Middleton, and Daye will be wide open. I'll take my chances on that group hitting an outside shot vs. what we have as starters - Knight, Singler, and Tay; at those positions.
     
  17. max

    max All-Star

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    Lets enjoy these wins while we can. its ok to hope that the season is turning around and even that CV, Daye and Bynum will continue to play so well. We will see.

    Started to look like they were going to find a way to lose this down the stretch but credit them ( and esp Tay ) for refusing to concede.
     
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well there is always Cousins looming out there.....we saw Joe looking at film of him on his smart phone during crunch time when Moose and Max were clogging the lane..
     
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    How about Goodin replacing JMAX as our starting power forward. I doubt Goodin is too pleased coming off Milwaukee's bench these days. Goodin is by no means my favorite player, but he can score readily and rebound.
     
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    No one else finds it odd that Drummond isn't the first sub off the bench?

    Knight got an offensive rebound with just over 3 minutes to go and had his man on is back inside the top of the key. If he took one strong dribble he would have had a 6' shot, been fouled or both or maybe gotten an open 3 for someone else. Instead Frank called a timeout so the Pistons could get into their vaunted half court offense.

    The Pistons got to stop playing like it's 2005.

    Maybe Stuckey will volunteer to not be active for the games any more? Nothing against him but it opens up the roster more when he's out.

    I don't feel like the Pistons are any closer to getting their best player(s) on the floor. It is still Unit 1 or Unit 2.
     
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