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Miami Heat Feb. 4th, 7:30 PM

Discussion in 'February 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Course, it's not like anyone on the Heat actually shoots from the post where blocks are likely to happen.

    Definitely a good game from Dyess - played hard and well, but again, not a lot of competition for boards from the Heat. And he can't play that many minutes on a consistent basis.

    Yeah, there was a lot of the old surely-these-guys-don't-think-they-can-beat-the-mighty-Pistons-do-they. And face it, Stuckey got lucky with the double clutch heave, and while Sheed can certainly hit that shot, maybe not the best thing with that much time left.


    The encouraging thing was occasionally seeing both Stuckey and AI on the court at the same time both pushing the ball and taking advantage if they had an opening. Last night showed that it's possible for them to coexist and jointly cause some havoc on the court. (the good kind of havoc)

    But the rotation - excuse me, a rotation requires substitutions. It was the same old Flip. Curry learned well at the knee of the master. Amir got his customary four fouls in ten minutes, so no issue there for me, but somebody else has got to play. AA has to play in the third for Prince. Sheed can't consistently play that many minutes.

    So, one or two glimmers of hope amid a big old pile of same-ol. Fortunately the Heat aren't the Celtics or the Cavs or this would have been way uglier.
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You kind of are seeing the light. The Sheed / Dyess pairing can work for short minutes. But if overplayed, the other team takes advantage soon enough of the door being left open around the basket. Plus, of course, Dyess and Sheed are too old to be playing all that many minutes. Remember that comment Kelser made - help side defense was too slow in coming. He was talking about Dyess. Dyess moved as soon, and as fast as he could. He read the play well. But he simply lacked the quickness to make the play.

    As for saying how terrible Amir did in the first quarter, gee, he was plus 2 for the game. We were down 6 when he came out in the first quarter. The team was playing poorly, not Amir. Further, Amir only played 4 minutes in the first quarter. Our two best stretches were when Dyess first came in, and the opening of the 3rd quarter, with Amir in. When Dyess came in for Amir in the 3rd quarter, we lost a double digit lead, managed to get the lead back up to 8, but then lost it again. (Which means in all, Dyess was all of plus 6 for the game. So a plus 2 vs. a plus 6, and Dyess played 3 times the minutes that Amir did. Do the math, neither player was more effective than the other.
     
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Good logic, but Amir wouldn't be able to log the minutes of a Dyess. He'd foul out after 15 minutes of play. I just don't think he'd have good numbers if he were to try to stay in games CONSISTENTLY. That's why I see him out of the league in 3 years.
     
  4. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Tay definitely develop that 3 ball shooting standing all better from the olympics. Instead of using this as a weapon, MC wants him to play Point Forward especially in the 4th quarter where we always play bad since the Charlotte game back in Dec 2008. It's been almost 2 months since and MC still has yet to recognized that Tay playing that position in the 4th will lose us more games.

    And why do AA only gets to play in the 1st half? We have a 9 man rotation in the 1st half where we play really well but in the 2nd half, the rotation is shortened to 7 man if we exclude Amir (he usually will not play more than 4 min in the 2nd).

    We really can hang around with all the top teams in the league (Celts, Cavs, Lakers, Magic etc) if we play the right rotations or the right matchups at the correct time. A good coach like Phil Jackson will definitely lead us at least to the ECF with this team.

    Those missed FTs in the last 20 seconds are due to the lack of confidence. We have been losing too many 4th quarter games lately and this is the end result.
     
  5. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Last night everyone on the Pistons who played had at least one TO. That kept the game close.
     
  6. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    when i do the math i see that dice was way more effective than amir...to say they were equal is just silly.

    look, amir brings zero offense so i EXPECT him to make hustle plays and solid defense. that's it. but he does not understand the game of basketball to a level that prevents him from making silly mistakes on the defensive end. he makes up for it with his athleticism, and i understand he's only 21 or whatever...but for his 4th year in the league i expect more.
     
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Try doing what I do. Rewatch the game film, with an open mind. You might want to focus on how well Amir stayed with Marion to open the 3rd quarter - you know, the guy who was seen getting open time after time in the first half? And making his shots.

    PS, four years in the league means nothing when you don't play any the first two years, and little in the third.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Why not follow the logic a bit more. Jason Maxiell could have subbed for Amir, avoiding the Dyess / Sheed pairing for a bit longer. Amir still had two fouls to give - there was no reason he could not have stayed in longer in the 3rd quarter - since we built a bit of a lead up with him in. Amir does not have to even play all that many minutes to avoid overplaying the Dyess / Sheed pairing - which was a goal of Curry's to start the season.

    If I were a betting man by the way, I'd bet Amir is a star in three years, and Dyess on the other hand, might retire after this season.
     
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sheed was tired in the second half. Curry is an idiot. He could have gotten Sheed 25 seconds of rest if he had put Amir back in there. That’s about a minute and 15 seconds in real time.

    Who is the unluckier player, AI for being saddled with poor coaches and team mates his entire career or Amir for being oppressed by equally inept coaches?

    I thought Sheed's 3 was an odd choice, but does anyone really think they would have scored had they worked the shot clock down? Let's be real.
     
  10. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I watched and rewatched Amir's third and fouth fouls last night. I couldn't see the third one. He was on the opposite side of the court from the ball standing by his man and got called for a foul. When the whistle blew everyone was looking around to see what happened; even the guy that was supposedly fouled.

    His fourth foul could have been a no call. He was pushed while trying to get a rebound. I actually didn't think he hit Haslem while he was tapping in the rebound but the officials are so quick with the whistles with him.

    He does get caught oit of position because of his aggressiveness to make a play but he also is quick enough to recover and avoid some of the contact but he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    This conversation you are having about Tay shooting threes, you might want to add the following to it:

    Tay hit just one three for the whole month of December. A combination of overplaying Tay in minutes, and wearing him out by playing him at power forward, meant he had no leg strength to even make a three.

    Tay is most likely beginning to recover some leg strength at the moment - when was the last time you remember Curry putting Tay in at power forward? Plus, heck, Curry even was smart enough to sit Tay for the whole 2nd quarter of this last game. Heck yeah, Tay can shoot threes - if not leg dead. When he can make them, he takes them. You need look no further than the beginning of this season to see that. Tay only quit taking threes after missing a ton to start the month of December. Good for him to recognize that he could not make the shot.
     
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think it means you're not that talented all in all.
     
  13. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Everyone keeps saying it is his fourth year in the league. He was drafted four years ago but I am not sure the D- League and the minutes he was allowed to play his first 3 years was enough for him to get acclimated to the NBA game.

    In the D-league he was not subject to the touch fouls that he is here. When he did get NBA minutes they were GT minutes where fouls were rarely called because the game was out of control.

    He was drafted four years ago straight out of high school but I am not sure that is the same as having four years experience in the NBA.
     
  14. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Amir is such a bad fantasy player. :sssh:
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    With Amir and his fouling- it's not really true that his fouls are limiting his minutes. He would be able to average 31 mpg if he were left in the game and that assumes that he wouldn't adapt when he has 5 fouls. That is the same # of minutes that Stuckey averages on the season.

    The coach is limiting his minutes. If you think that the fouls by themselves are hurting the team, then that is a different argument. My retort would be that if he were worth having out there for the first 4 fouls, then he'd be worth having out there for the last 2 fouls.

    It would be like saying that Shaq's FT shooting limits his minutes. He's a really bad FT shooter, sure, but he makes up for it.

    With Amir, he's basically shooting .600, mostly by getting other player's misses and putting them back in. But the best quality about him is that the other team shoots 4% lower when he's in the game. That equates to 5 ppg less for them.

    It's hard to see, but it is happening.
     
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    are you a betting man? because i'll gladly take you up on the amir-being-a-star thing :)

    okay, yes, it helps if you went to college (like max). it helps if you get playing time. it helps to be older. but this dude has been banging against sheed/dice/c-webb/ratliff/ben every single day in practice for 3 years...didn't anything rub off? does he actually work on his post-game in the off-season, or just run down hills of sand?

    i'm being hard on him but i expect more, and i feel the need to call him out a little bit when everyone else is making excuses for him and overrating his positive impact on games. i can't be the only one that feels this way!
     
  17. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    oddly enough i've kept him on my team all year and i'm in 2nd place haha

    maybe i'm underrating him after all ;)
     
  18. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think Lee is referring to his Inverse Theory of Relative Potential.

    What this basically means is that a player who does not play in a certain quarter would be expected to produce more than the players that are actually on the floor since the potential of the players on the floor goes down with each missed shot, TO etc, while the benched player's potential remains unchanged therefore ultimatley the potentail statistics of the benched player far exceed the statistics of any one player on the floor.

    Also know as RPI (relative potential index).
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He may not put up the fantasy stats, but he clearly makes other players on fantasy teams better.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I was so thrilled we had a double digit lead though. Really. It's been so long since we have lead for awhile, let alone led by 13 points.

    Man, I used to take that for granted...
     

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