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Memphis Dec 21 8PM

Discussion in 'December 2007' started by max, Dec 20, 2007.

  1. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Fair enough, Buddha. I forgot that Amir came from SoCal. Your interest makes a little more sense to me.

    And you're right, Amir does have a lot of work to do. I worry about the work ethic of kids who are urged to jump to the NBA from high school. They've been told how great they are all their lives. I'm not saying I'm a fan of Stern's "19-year-old rule," but hopefully Amir understands, like you, that he has a long way to go. I would hope for $3M per, he'll be willing to put in the work.

    Peace.
     
  2. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I think to put the whole AJ thing into perspective.

    Lets compare where he stands compared to Maxey

    Maxey played 4 years of big time college hoops.

    His first year with us when he as 22-23 he averaged 2 points and 1 rebound.

    AJ has had no college experience and prior to this year he had only 50 games in the D league 60 in total beyond high school if you include the 11 games with us over the last two years.

    AJ is still only 20 years old and won't be 21 until the playoffs, which is about 2 + years younger than Maxey was when he joined us.

    So far AJ is averaging 2.5 points and 2.7 rebounds a game this year, which are already better than Maxey had in his first year with us and those numbers should go up by the end of the year.

    So if you compare him to Maxey, I would say that AJ at this time in on a relative time, experience and age basis compares very favorably to Maxey.



    Jason Maxiell - Detroit Pistons - Career Statistics - NBA - Yahoo! Sports


    Amir Johnson - Detroit Pistons - NBA - Yahoo! Sports
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I am going to add something to the part about needing more floor time to gain the experience.

    Not long ago, people were harping on JMAX's rebounding. I told them, hold on, he has not had time enough to get comfortable out there. Wait. And gee, JMAX, with floor time, got comfortable. Now other teams hate to see him out there because they can't keep him off the offensive boards. And his defensive rebounding is just fine.

    Now, listen to this. Amir is a far superior rebounder compared to JMAX. With some time on the floor, some experience, some comfort level, Amir will be clearly our best rebounder, and there will not be anyone to ever question it.

    In addition, Amir is far and away the better offensive player vs. JMAX. Time will see everyone understand that.

    Further, Amir is a far better shot blocker vs. JMAX.

    Further, on dunking, JMAX looks impressive, but you ain't seen nothing yet until you see Amir get comfortable out there.

    In sum, give it time. Amir is one of our best players. We absolutely need him to play as much as possible this year so we can win it all this year. Next year ain't going to help this year. The time is now for Amir to get minutes, and thats the only opinion that matters on Amir.

    So, I ask this - who out there thinks he should be getting regular minutes now. (Vs. watiting until next year.)

    I'll give my vote. Play him now. Anyone who wants to set up a poll on this, please do so.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Lee just go to the Amir tracker, must of us are down.
     
  5. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe on the defensive glass, but Maxiell is the Pistons' best offensive rebounder.
     
  6. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    If you look at rebounding and blocks per 48 minutes.

    AJ is our leader at 14.4 rebounds per 48 minutes which would put him 20th in the league if he had enough minutes.

    AJ is averaging 6.9 blocks per 48 minutes. The league leader is Mourning at 5.2 blocks per 48 minutes. Maxey is averaging 3.1 which makes him 16th in the league.


    ESPN - NBA Statistics and League Leaders - National Basketball Association

    :hoops:
     
  7. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I love it that he attacks the offensive glass the way he does.

    :hoops:
     
  8. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    To THE HOGMAN!!:

    That was sooooo kool! U are once again 'the king of all Palace media"!!! Great pics(with the exception of the big heads in front of u). Maybe next time you can take a couple of xtra $$$$ to buy your way into the front row. :pound:I dont know who Megan fox is but my daughter got on me because I thought you meant Megan Good!!:pound:

    ON THE GAME:

    Wouldnt it be a wonderful world if every Piston could play 30 minutes each, and average 12 pts, 8 rebounds and 5 assists a game?? The nature of this team is Piston DNA and the object of the game is TO WIN. Our goal is THE 'SHIP!
    It doesnt matter that Amir gets more PT or Stuckey and AA win Co-Rookie of the year or that Ed Herrmann 'IS' the head vampire because I remember when this team was a 16 and 66 laughing stock!!
    When it comes down to it will be #1, 22, 32, 36 and 24 when it counts. #54, 3, 28, 9 and 7 will be valuable commodities and # 25 and The Checkster will watch and learn as Salley and Rodman of our future.

    NOTES from the bench:
    CAREER: (in 3 to 5 years)
    AA: Will be a stud in the Dennis Johnson clone factory. He has better range and better footspeed, though. I just like all the intangibles.
    CARRER: 15 PPG, 5 RPG, 5 APG

    STUCKEY: Anyone remember Joe Dumars? That's Stuckey if he improves defensively. Dumars wasnt a "true" point guard, but he knew how to run a team. Rod will understudy with the two masters, Dumars and Billups as he becomes 'Volume 3-BAdBoys' captain.
    CAREER: 20 PPG, 4 RPG, 7APG

    THE BRAHMA: Big Nasty with Hops! He will never be more than a 24 Minute-man, because of foul trouble and match up problems, but he could become the best 6th man in Piston history not named Rodman.
    The best plays are his pullup jumpers and tenacity on the O-glass. Will always be a fan favorite.
    CAREER: 14PPg, 8 Rpg, 2 BSpg

    AMIR: John Salley.(period) He will be a lil better than Spider because of shooting range and ballhandling. But Spider lived for the "winning". Amir is still about the moment. But he is still only 20, but not as mature as Spider was at 20. AJ's time will come, but as long as he knows he has to play a role for this particular team for at least 2 more years.
    CAREER: 13PPG, 11 RPG, 2 BSpg

    THE CHEKKSTER: Lots of upside. If he puts on 20 more pounds, I SWEAR, he could be a poorman's David Robinson. He will never be the scorer the ADmiral was(71 pts in one game, remember), but he CAN be a game changer because he's a good passer and agressive defender. I know I show my old age a lot, but in the 70's there was a center named Artis Gilmore who pulled on 25 lbs after college and became a freight train.Im telling u, Samb can be the same.
    CAREER: 12 PPg, 10 Rpg, 3 BSpg

    This will be the basis of all of our future drafts and signings. TAY will be the leader in the locker room (17.7 PPg) and CB will be the old man. Rip will be traded and Dice and Sheed will have retired.(Especially if we can get another 'ship)
     
  9. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Whoa there, buddy...I'd be happy if Samb just ended up being the next Sam Dalembert. Although maybe we're saying the same thing, since Dalembert the last couple of years has been around 11 ppg, 9-10 boards, 2 blocks. But would you call Dalembert a poor man's Admiral, or even a poor man's Big Artis?
     
  10. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    He has the potential(if he gains weight) of a Gilmore(remember how MOses Malone took off after adding a few big macs?) But just not a 23 ppg scorer. Artis was an impact player BITD! I just see something in Samb's DNA that says he 's not quitting on this team. Dalembert has no heart....
     
  11. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    buddah, i understand where you're coming from with AJ's and Max's rebound numbers, but it's difficult to compare them. Many of AJ's minutes are in garbage time and/or against bench scrubs, who are looking for their own offense and easier to predict for the blocks. Give Amir all of Maxiell's minutes and he most likely doesn't keep up that production. Plus he's a lot more foul-prone than Max, who has learned to pick his spots and not pick up silly fouls as often.

    I'm not saying Amir isn't a great shot blocker or is incapable of playing at or above Max's level, but I think those numbers need to be put into perspective.

    HQ, holla! Megan Fox is the hot chick from Transformers. I love (and mostly agree with) your assessment of our young guys. Credit has to be given to Joe Dumars - we've got an awesome combination of championship vets, young vets, role players, and building blocks. With Stuckey getting minutes and Flip/Nazr gone from the lineup, I don't think I'm going to get bored watching the Pistons for the rest of the year, as opposed to earlier in the season.
     
  12. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    As I recall Maxey's numbers in his first year were also mostly in garbage time. That was even true to a certain extent last year.

    So I believe that in comparing first year numbers of both players, my comparison is valid.


    :hoops:
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Weird how there is no Darko talk in a game that he actually played in. Its all Amir and the current Pistons which is good. Last year we would not have had a thread like this.
     
  14. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    B/c last year nobody (Dumars too) knew, where pick lands and what you could get. And DMC has been a dissapointment for Memphis fans.
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Maybe for the moment. I say give Amir 5 straight games of 20 minutes and he supasses JMAX on offensive rebounding. Give him the minutes that JMAX has had this season, and then there would be no comparison. Amir is much taller than JMAX, far more athletic, far quicker. JMAX does have better strength to hold his ground, but that won't keep him ahead of Amir for long.
     
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    Both players bring something different so it really should not be a competition even though it is by what positions the coach has deemed appropriate for them to play.

    Jmax brings toughness and a passion for playing inside which we desperatly needed. Amir is more athletic. Can probably take 5-6 mins right from Dyess's 30 MPG and give them to Amir right now. But I am still trying to figure out why Amir would not be able to play some SF? Could probably bump him up to about 10-12 MPG if that were the case.

    I am still trying to learn Amir's game and potential to see where he will fit in.
     
  17. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    AJ is not a small forward, never had been and never will be. I have no idea where that thinking came from. To my knowledge he has never played the #3 in his life except maybe by accident.

    He is being groomed as a #5.

    You don't play your best rebounder and best shot blocker, who is a 7 footer (almost) at the #3. When you defend against a #3 you spend a lot of your time away from the basket. Why on earth would you play your best rebounder and shot blocker on the perimeter on defense? The only exception I can think of is if the opposing #5 played on the outside on offense, but even then I would switch and put a smaller man on their #5 and keep my best rebounder, and shot blocker near the basket, except on jump outs for double teams. AJ is also very effective at altering opponents shots in the paint. He can't do that if he is playing defense on the perimeter.


    :hoops:
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    1) We originally were grooming Amir to be a small forward for his first two years in the league, due to his slight build at that time. But he never played, and the plan was dropped after he grew some.

    2) It matters not one iota how good a rebounder you are, or how good a shot blocker you are. No criteria matters one bit except one. Would you help the team more vs. playing someone else those minutes.? Right now, we are not playing Amir many minutes at the 5, or 4; so he has plenty of spare time to play at the 3.

    3) Now back to the criteria. Hayes is currently getting small forward minutes. Would Amir do a better job than Hayes with those minutes?

    a) Rebounding. Yep, Amir is our best rebounder, so of course he would give us more rebounds vs. Hayes.

    b) Defense. I do see some improvement from Hayes as the season goes on. But I still see Hayes as a slow defender overall. As speed is a big part of defending a small forward, I am pretty sure Amir will do a better job vs. Hayes at defense.

    c) Post up scoring. It never hurts to add post up scoring. Hayes does do some, but lately his slump has him down to a bucket every other game from post moves. Plus he is very limited, relying almost solely on face up or fade-a-way jumpers out of the post. Amir in contrast has a myriad of post moves that us fans would dearly love to be entertained by.

    d) Blocks. Hayes never. Amir, better shot blocker for the league.

    e) Ball handling. Hayes seems to be a near zero in this. Amir seems to be a good passer.

    f) Outside shooting. Supposedly, this is a strength of Hayes. Possibly the only reason anyone would choose Hayes over Amir as a small forward. But Hayes ain't hitting outside shots at the moment. Maybe some fair competition for his minutes could light a fire under him in this respect. Meanwhile, Amir himself can hit outside shots these days. Its just a matter of letting him shoot the ball.
     
  19. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    g. it works for lee's way of thinking and thats all that counts GRIN


    AJ will play the 4 and 5 and thats what he has done since he's been here, if I have missed all this "making him a 3" for the last 2 years would somebody please point me where this was told to the masses by somebody that really knows the story.... aka joe's mouth

    against certain teams he might be able to play against other teams 3's granted, but most nights he would get toasted he's to big to be guarding the star 3's of the league and were built to beat those teams not to beat a couple of losing teams that we would never play in the playoffs.
     
  20. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Post just one link to a player's and team's stats in the history of the NBA where a SF lead his team in rebounds and blocked shots per 48 minutes played in one year, then I will concede your point.

    Until then we will just have to agree to disagree.

    :hoops:
     

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