Let's talk about Will Bynum for a second . . .

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by lovingj, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    1
    I believe it is time to look at what we actually have instead of what we want.

    We want Stuckey to improve and be our PG, but does he actually have that in him? And if he does, how long do we wait for it to show improvement? We're leaving it to chance that he will improve.

    However, what we have is a much better player(at least right now) coming off the bench. So at this point(or after a few games of Stuckey continuing to not show us that he's a PG and Bynum steadily outplaying him) do we turn the corner of collectively wanting Bynum to be our starting PG?

    Because in reality, where are all these minutes in the backcourt going to come from once the season actually starts? Someone will get the shaft. BenGo is a proven player(at least in Chicago he was and we all are banking that it will continue now in Detroit) Rip is proven and Bynum has steadily shown us that he can play in this league, as a PG. No, he isn't perfect... he's a little guy, but he's the best option at the point currently on our roster(unless BenGo suddenly becomes a PG, which is highly unlikely...)

    So unless Stuckey suddenly starts to show signs that he "get's it", I think we should give up on him being our starting PG, either trade him while other teams may still have interest in him... OR!!! If there is more of a sense that Stuckey would fair a lot better at the two, trade Rip(which we need to do at some point going forward)...

    I say the Pistons should bite the bullet and give Bynum, Stuckey's shot! At least to see how it goes...
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,430
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    What it comes down to is that we have 2 guards at each spot who are almost equally deserving of minutes.

    If Bynum outplays Stuckey, he will likely come off the bench still.

    If Gordon outplays Rip, he will likely come off the bench still.

    It's a tough dynamic when 4 players are all all competing for extremely limited minutes and 2 of the players are pre-demoted.


    So, Kuester's only option is to play some of these guys out of their position to get them the minutes that they deserve (if they were on a team with correct balance). This outcome is not necessarily good for the team, but it would be personally good for the player that gets the minutes.

    In a way, Joe is setting Kuester up to fail. He may very well have a plan to make another trade involving Rip, but I can't really assume that. He may have had that plan and struck out trying already.
  3. MACKSnare519

    MACKSnare519 First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    1
    Setting the rookie coach up for failure, part two!
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,564
    Likes Received:
    2,581
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    It is indeed a bit of a log jam.
    I just hope that Q has the bawls to play the right guy for the right reasons (whoever it is).

    It shouldn't ever be a case where Stuckey gets a better opportunity than Will just cuz he was picked in the 1st round and Will was an un-drafted FA.

    ...For me, it's almost getting to the point where I'd swap Rip & JMax for a "decent" 1st round pick and a journeyman Center.
  5. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,157
    Likes Received:
    1,040
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    Fixed it.

    Ladies and gentleman, your 2009-2010 Tulsa Pistons!!!
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,922
    Likes Received:
    1,323
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    This roster frustrates me because they're not gonna do what I want.
    That is...to start Rip and Bynum and use Ben and Stucky as back up.
  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I feel ya'. I'm not there yet but I'm close.

    That would solve so many problems. IMO the issue with Will is that he has been Type Cast into the role of, "Change of Pace PG/Spark off the bench" And he plays that role EXTREMELY well, I don't think that the problem is moving Rodney to the pine, it's NOT having Will come off the pine when you need an offensive boost. I said it before and I'll say it again, Austin Daye can be the player who throws a real monkeywrench into the TravesShamMockery of a roster, once he shows that he truly deserves mins at the 3, one of the 3Sg's is going to lose mins.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,430
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I wonder how much Bynum has really improved his shot with all of the work over the summer. Free throws can be a good indicator and he's 38-40 so far this preseason. Pretty decent sample size for a shot with not many variables. He was decent last year with a .798 FT%, but a .925 clip so far means that he may have improved... although it is extremely unlikely that he has improved that much. .848 was the best on the team last year, so if he can maintain a long term average close to that, it would be great.

    It is especially important for him, since he draws fouls at a greater rate than anyone else on the team. He was almost at AI's rate last year with 5.3 per 36 minutes vs. 5.9 for AI.
  9. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    There is an imbalance with the style of guard play... all four are primarily scorers while lacking the distributing part of the game.
    Rip may be the most willing passer... yet he tends to be turnover prone when passing.
    Stuckey is still the wildcard... when he focuses on distributing it tends to affect his agressiveness... he becomes hesitant to take what's available.... a true QB recognizes the defense and makes quick/positive decisions.

    I'm not sold on Bynum's playmaking ability... passing is more of a last resort... when he has the ball the defense knows he's a threat... they will continue to help on him... the real wide open shots aren't happening so far.... the shot selection will continue to regress with the extra attention he'll receive once the scouts are up to speed.

    Gordon is saying the right things about showing that he's a complete player... he wants to show the other side of his game (facilitating)... if this becomes a reality then we become a playoff team... he's that much of a threat to score... if he keeps teams honest by locating the open man then he'll get more single coverage and he'll shoot in the high 40% range.

    I prefer a guard that finds the guy under the rim for the easy dunk.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,430
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    That is Bynum. Most of his assists come when he drives and drops it off.

    They are very different from traditional PG assists or from what we were used to from Billups.
  11. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    It's funny before the preseason we were all in an uproar because we had too many SG's (Ben and Rip). Now with the excellent play of Bynum and the inconsistent play of Stuckey, we're finding out that the real issue is at PG with Bynum and Stuckey. IMO we have 3 SG's (Rip, Stuck, and BenG) and scoring PG-Will. This gets goofier by the day.
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    3,109
    Location:
    Michigan

    Yea, and Bynum is a nice backup PG, not a starter.

    Rip and BenG are both starting SG. I don't think Stuckey is ready to start at any position right now.
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Exact-A-Mondo!!!! 2 starting SG's a backup PG, and a ?So really we need to trade Rip and Stuckey for a legit PG, wait a minute, didn't we get something like that offered to us earlier this season? That Boston deal ain't looking so rediculous right about now!
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Time to revisit this thread as he seems to be getting quite popular in other threads (he's darn near at Darko level).

    Earlier in the season (and most of last season) Will was not healthy, his ability to blow by defenders and harass PG's was almost completely gone. he was awful on offense, couldn't run the team, and couldn't defend. lately he has been returning to form, the explosive offensive bursts are back and he's getting better on the ball.

    Will might be the best "Spark-Plug" off the bench in the entire league, he's right up there with guys like JR Smith IMO. However in many games where Will goes off we often lose, to be fair we're usually losing when he enters the game.

    I'm a person who sees the value of Will, (I'm really, really, really enjoying watching him and Stuckey come off the bench and attacking the heck out other teams 2nd units these last few games) but I understand the argument that what Will does, doesn't yield W's, but is that really HIS fault? Others have noted that he usually starts his A-I imitation when nobody else can score and we're already down by double figures.
  15. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,670
    Likes Received:
    323
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    He is what he is.... a good backup PG, but that means that were still short a starting PG moving forward, I think that the Pistons have moved on with the Stuckey PG thing...

    If he is going to remain our backup PG that means that to balance the team out Gordon has to start and Stuckey is the backup at SG....

    and were still looking for a PG moving forward.... Love T-mac this year but he isn't the long term solution...

    I prefer Ben off the bench which means I think we need not one but two PG's to work on our team...


    Just a very tired guy rambling....
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Flint
    Did you see the play just recently where a bit of a fake sent Bynum sliding completely under the potential pick - leaving his man wide open? His footwork still ain't right. I am still not convinced he is fully healthy. At least, I hope that is it. Worst case is he is just that bad a defender.

    As far as plus minus numbers, comparing TMAC to Bynum yields this:

    In our last 17 games vs. quality opponents (those within 4 games of .500 as of a couple days ago), TMAC is a combined +16, while Bynum is a combined -20. That ain't much of a difference really - though it is true that Bynum got his -20 in a lot less minutes over that stretch of games.

    Problems with Bynum playing - a combination of two things, especially against the better opponents - he can't set up the offense vs. a good opponent - and he can't play much defense. His poor defense comes from two things - bad footwork - far worse than what we saw as Bynum first started playing for us, indicating his ankle problems may still be an issue - and being short. Being short, a whole lot of plays he simply can't effect - like the triple Gibson hit over him in the Cleveland game. Sure, he buried one over Stuckey too, but he had to work for that. With Bynum coming up to him, Gibson just flat out ignored Bynum, stepped into his shot nicely and swished it with no effort at all. Anybody penetrates toward the basket, the rest of the team has to scramble to cover for Bynum.

    Problems with TMAC playing point guard. It leaves us with two small forwards in the game - and not enough team speed to cover both their guards. Which is why I suggest sitting Prince in favor of TMAC - and playing Stuckey and Rip along side him. Maybe Wilcox and Monroe up front.

    We have a lot of guards. Not all of them can play a lot of minutes - and this is compounded now by having 3 small forwards on the team also wanting a lot of playing time. (Daye, Prince, and TMAC.) In my opinion, the worst of the lot is Bynum.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,430
    Likes Received:
    2,775
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Addressing the issue of... "his best performances don't result in wins"
    He's played in 17 winning games this year with 20 mpg, 8.0 pts, 3.4 ast, and .476 from the field.

    He's played in 25 losing games this year with only 15.4 mpg, 6.4 pts, 2.1 ast, and .437 from the field.

    If you look at WB's top 7 scoring games of the season, we're 5-2 with respectably close losses to the Spurs and Nuggets (too bad we got owned by Billups and Afflalo).

    If you look at the top 10 minutes played games by Bynum, we're 7-3. So, the more he plays, the better we do? We're 3-7 in Stuckey's top 10 minute games.

    If you look at all games where he's had 3 or more assists, we are 10-6.

    If you look at games where he's taken 8 or more shots, we are 7-6.

    Also, he has seemed to get better each month of the season so far. He's on fire in Feb with an average of about 30 pts and 10 asts per 48 min with a FG% nearing 60%.

    Don't get me started about how well he performs on Saturdays.

    In conclusion: Bynum having a strong game correlates with Pistons W's way more than the critics are alleging.

    On the other hand, Stuckey's high performances also correlates with W's. I'd say that it's probably true for the whole team since we beat weaker teams and it's just easier to put up stats against bad defenses.
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    That's some great stuff! If T-Mac and Gordon can play like, well, T-Mac and Gordon I believe the attacking duo of Bynum and Stuckey can be a very solid punch off the bench as we make a playoff push.
  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,429
    Likes Received:
    547
    Location:
    Flint
    If we are winning the game, coach often leaves Bynum in the whole fourth. Ditto for the 2nd quarter. Coach caused these stats, not Bynum's play.
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,064
    Likes Received:
    3,109
    Location:
    Michigan
    Kuester has yet to play a minute. Bynum creates his own statistics, for better or worse...

Share This Page