Joe-D's Bad Resume

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Mar 23, 2014.

  1. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Did I miss any?

    Draft: *Just the missed-picks of current top-50 players
    -D. Milicic over C. Anthony (#4 SLAM Top 50)
    -R. White over T. Parker (#11 SLAM Top 50)
    -G. Monroe over P. George (#14 SLAM Top 50)
    -A. Afflalo over M. Gasol (#18 SLAM Top 50)
    -A Daye over T. Lawson (#35 SLAM Top 50)
    -J. Maxiel over D. Lee (#43 SLAM Top 50)
    -B. Knight over K. Leonard (#46 SLAM Top 50)
    -K. C-Pope over M. C-Williams (#1 NBA Rookie Ladder)

    Trades: *Just the horrible ones
    -C. Billups, C. Samb (and A. McDyess) for A. Iverson
    -'13/'14/'15 1st rd. pick and B. Gordon for C. Maggette
    -A. Afflalo, W. Sharpe for '11 2nd rd. pick~V. Macklin
    -B. Knight, K. Middleton, V. Kravtsov for B. Jennings
    -'05 1st rd. pick (and E. Campbell) for C. Arroyo
    -C. Buddinger for '12 2nd rd. pick~K. English

    Signings: *Just the big, horrible ones
    -C. Villanueva
    -B. Gordon
    -M. Cheeks
    -J. Kuester
    -L. Frank
    -M. Curry
    -F. Saunders
    -J. Smith?
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    To be fair, Michael Curry was a Lee pick.
     
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  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    When Dumars was first hired, he quickly made some amazing trades. He dealt both Christian Laettner and Loy Vaught, both of whom really sucked and both of whom had horrible contracts. He also traded for Ben Wallace that summer. These moves were noted by many and he was well on his way to being one of the best GMs in the business. He earned the NBA executive of the year just a couple years later.
     
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  4. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Bill, get out of here with your positivity!
     
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  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Enron was rocking and rolling at that point. The iphone was 7 years from launching. Jermaine Jackson was a Piston.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I was more of a Tito Jackson fan.
     
  7. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    Joe-D's Good Resume:

    Picks:
    -T. Prince (2002)
    -M. Okur (2001)
    -A. Afflalo (2007) Doh!
    -G. Monroe (2010)
    -A. Drummond (2012)

    Trades:
    -G. Hill for B. Wallace and C. Atkins (2000)
    -J. Stackhouse for R. Hamilton (2002)
    -C. Atkins, Z. Rebraca, B. Sura and two 1st rd. picks (and L. Hunter) for R. Wallace and M. James (2004)
    -J. Buechler for C. Robinson (2001)
    -J. Williams for Corliss Williamson (2001)
    -M. Cleaves for J. Barry (2001)

    Signings:
    -C. Billups
    -A. McDyess
    -L. Brown
    -R. Carlisle
     
  8. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    It's honestly the strangest thing I've ever seen in sports. From 2000-2004, he was the best GM in basketball. Far and away. Maybe the best GM in all of professional sports at the time. He couldn't miss (aside from draft picks). He was active. He was ten steps ahead of the competition.

    Then, all of the sudden..

    Flop.

    He forgets everything he ever knew somehow and, rather quickly, becomes not only - clearly - the worst GM in the NBA, but perhaps the worst GM professional sports in this country have seen since Matt Millen.

    Just so weird. And we've never really established a popularly accepted theory of what happened?
     
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Buttered popcorn?
     
  10. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    No man. Come on. We always just non-stop joke about this. What in the H happened?? Really?
     
  11. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    There's the John Hammond left argument. He was the real brains behind the operation. But he hasn't exactly lit the world on fire either. Though.. he is in line to receive the #1 overall pick in the most talented draft since LeBron. He's got a potential young superstar on his team in Giannis. Larry Sanders is hurt, but he's a great young player/defender. Ilyasova is a nice player. O.J. Mayo's there. Middleton, Knight and Henson all look fine as youngsters. Wolters. I guess that team could be on the verge of busting out. But still. It's been a long, long, mistake-ridden process there for Ham. I guess the theory that those two worked very well as a team together could be floated.

    There's the "content" argument. Joe-D was content after winning the 04 championship. Simply stopped putting in the hours.

    There's the big-head argument. After Joe-D started having success.. he started to think that he knew so much more than the rest of the basketball world.. leading to a lot of awful situations.

    There's the 'he got too close to the players' argument. Never a true part of the team/popular member of the Bad Boys. When he first took the job, and the majority of his roster was made up of former teammates--he was ruthless. He looked at his players (with the exception of friends Lindsey Hunter and Michael Curry) as assets. He moved them for better assets. End of story. But after that championship, he'd sort of become the popular guy in the organization for the first time. He obviously formed very close, off-the-court relationships with the likes of Tayshaun, Sheed, Rip, Ben, Chauncey. It made for a very unprofessional environment for head coaches. And it clouded a lot of his decision making.

    The things I will NEVER, EVER, EVER be able to understand though..

    1) How did "Trader Joe" ever become sooo stubborn, out of touch with league reality, and unable to make a trade with anyone?? For six or seven years now, we've all been hearing the whispers around the league of other teams' executives laughing at Joe-D, calling him nuts, etc.

    2) How did Joe-D forget about Defense!? Charlie-V. Ben Gordon. Austin Daye. Brandon Jennings. It just baffles the mind..
     
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I was sort of joking, but also really implying this theory. He got content. He got fat. He ate too much popcorn...
     
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  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe he had better luck evaluating players that he played against?
     
  14. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    I mean, I guess. But how does a Bad Boy/04 architect just completely throw toughness and defense out the window?? Charlie-V!!? Charlie-V!?

    How does a trade-a-month GM become completely incapable of even interacting with other executives around the league.

    It's just unbelievable.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He abandoned his core beliefs. Maybe being in the business made him feel like he constantly needed a new angle to stay competitive. He always seemed overly concerned with how the league was supposedly changing.
     
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  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    This can be (and has been) analyzed to death. The fact of the matter is, Joe tried something new "rebuilding on the fly". He couldn't pull it off, it backfired on him, and the team was locked in mediocrity for a decade as a result. He could've hit hard reset in '06. He didn't. He thought he wouldn't have to. Looking back on it, he was wrong.

    Blue, you're dealing out extremes. Joe didn't go from being the most brilliant GM in all of pro sports to being the most ignorant monkey-spit to ever put on a suit. He's a guy that understands that Detroit is not an attractive climate to compete with LA/Miami, and doesn't have the luxury-tax happy cash flow of big-market teams like NYK. So, in order to build a winner here, he realizes that he needs to come up with a unique strategy.

    The strategy he tried when building the 2004 team (building a balanced team that is greater than the sum of its parts and emphasizing defense) worked beautifully and to great success.
    The strategy he tried next (adjusting to the changing climate on the fly by adding offensive players that can play multiple positions) failed spectacularly.

    That's it.
     
  17. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

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    It'd be nice if it were that simple, but it isn't.

    How do you explain his complete loss of reality? He went from deal-a-month-Joe to a guy who hasn't been able to complete a transaction in years, aside from getting totally hosed by his ex-assistant last summer. Teams were actually offering expiring contracts for J-Smith at the deadline this year!! Joe refused the deals because he actually thought he could get assets in return!?!?! He gave away a 1st rd. pick to get rid of Ben Gordon.. and then did NOTHING with the amnesty clause he could've used instead. He talked about the value of expiring contracts -- Tay, Charlie, Stuckey -- for years and years and was never able to do anything with them.

    How do you explain his atrocious head coach hirings?? Flip even. Curry. Kuester. Frank. Cheeks. What kind of "style" was he attempting there??


    Whatever happened to Joe-D..

    It's nothing simple. It's one of the greatest mysteries in pro sports history.
     
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I liked Flip.
     
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  19. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I liked Flip.
     
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    JD believed his press clippings. He got too content.
    I still think he looks in the mirror and sees a 190 pound man.
    Subsequently...he sees a team one player away from championship material.
     

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