It's time to **** or get off the pot

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Nov 27, 2005.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Fueling the fire...

    From A. Sherrod Blakely on the mlive forums

  2. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Right, It's just not wise to ignore our big man needs of the future... we won't be getting a lotto pick anytime soon... and a good big might be hard to get with the MLE (Atlanta did well with Pachulia)...
    If we trade for a lotto pick we could be right back to a Darko type player... Trading DMC may be the right thing eventually but somehow we would need to land a solid big for the future.... good luck prying one loose from anyone.

    So anyone wanting to trade Darko... what's your plan to bring back a decent big?
    Please don't say the future doesn't matter.
  3. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I'll leave the arguement of Darko's mental preparedness to BBall Jay. However, the Pistons seem to have invested too much in the kid to just chuck him as a casualty of the NBA.

    Also, JMax has a lot more experience that darko.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You got me. I just scanned the FA list for the next 3 years and unless we make a run at one of the hotshot rookies like Howard or Okeafor, it is slim pickings indeed.

    But then, the Spurs won a title with Nazr Mohammed and Rasho Nesterovic.
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    thy also had tim duncan
  6. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Asb

    Good stuff by ASB posted bt Micro


    Pretty much reinforces what a lot of us have obseved about Darko's lack of toughness. I do give him credit for trying to break Mutombo's arm but he didn't actually break it so I can only give him partial credit.
  7. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy

    I'm not at all convinced that we should deal Darko, but the fact that "we have a lot invested in him" is NOT a reason to not deal him. That's known in economics as a "sunk cost", and is easy to fall prey to. It's similar to saying "we spent a #2 pick on him so we should keep him." If you're convinced you made a mistake, it's better to cut your losses.

    One thing that affects the equation a little (to deal or not to deal Darko) is the fact that this team doesn't really have any demonstrable holes in it (with the exception of the backup SF position). I suspect if we had four solid starters and one gaping hole that was costing us a chance at a title, there's a good chance Darko would be gone by now in order to address that need. But for now, unless (as Merc noted) we can get another young big (I doubt it) or a lottery pick that would bring us that player, there isn't a really compelling reason to trade him. We would have to trade him for something, and I can't think of anything we really need at the moment (I don't think you deal your 20-year old 7-footer for a backup 3).

    The only other possibility would be to package him with a starter for either an upgrade at a position, such as 'Sheed/Darko for KG, or to get younger there, such as 'Sheed/Darko for Brand (these are NOT meant to be trade suggestions, just an example of what I'm talking about). Something like that I can't imagine taking place until after the season, because I would be very hesitant right now to mess with our Starting 5.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    He's a FA in 2008. ;)
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Tbird

    Very good points.
    But go back to 2003 when the pick fell into the Pistons' lap. It was almost the same team. If there was a weakness at point, we'd have Wade. There wasn't a pressing need and there wasn't much dev time to give a rookie. Enter Darko, A very very young player with a lot of gifts if not a whole bunch of skill or experience.

    I believe there was a game plan as to how Darko would be developed because he wasn't put in the typical situation. usually a team commits to its pick and the player either performs or doesn't. The pistons never committed to darko. Instead of a trial by fire, he was immersed in lukewarm water.
    What I'm saying about investing is to execute Operation Darko until its complete. Its too early to cut bait.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It would be like trading-in a sports car that you bought 3 years ago, but only drove it around the neighborhood. And the dealer is going to rip you off.
  11. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    TaShawn

    You're assuming that what you bought was actually a sports car. One thing about drafting is that you are never certain exactly what you're getting. That's why you can't apply that analogy.

    The #2 pick, once selected, is no longer a #2 pick. They are now a player, and you have to evaluate them based upon the player's production and/or potential (production becomes more important relative to potential as time passes), rather than the fact that you selected them #2. Michael Olowakandi was a #1 pick, but now he's just a stiff.

    Again, I'm not saying we should trade Darko. I'm saying that that justification for holding on to him is based on faulty logic.
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    on the mentally tough thing. he's comparing jmax to darko and jmax has had plenty of run compared to darko's first 2 years. i'm willing to bet jmax will play more minutes in the first half of the season than darko did in his first 2 years. sure it's easy to be mentally tough as a rookie and you are getting garbage time minutes. but try being mentally tough after you did that for 2 years straight. darko has rode pine for 3 years. it's the difference between being in a tight closet for 30 minutes and 3 hours. darko hasn't complained this year he's only answered questions from reporters. darko is mentally tough he's handled these couple of years really well for a very young guy. he just wants to play when the game counts nothing wrong with that especially when he doesn't hurt the team when he does that.

    people mistake padding stats in garbage time with hunger. where is jmax's hunger to run the offense?? asb is also wrong about delfino. the one thing delfino does well is rebound. he also creates shots for other people something that mo evans can't do. i haven't seen that mo evans defense yet. but i'm willing to wait since his athleticism may allow for that.

    good points about jmax, darko and delfino all of those guys would be seeing minutes on another team.

    it's so weird that if darko was putting up 20 points in garbage time people would dismiss his effort as it's only garbage time. whenever darko does well it's just dismissed. like in the atlanta game it was dismissed as they were midgets and atlanta sucks. when he took it to rasho in the finals. it was dismissed. when he was leading the nba in blocks in the preseason it was dismissed as preseason. when he was dogging people in the euro tourney it was dismissed too.

    so i'm with darko the only real way to get respect is to play meaningful minutes and produce. trading darko at this point would be really really dumb. ask portland about giving up on j oneal.
  13. legend71

    legend71 Second Round Draft Pick

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    I for one would trade Darko based upon what value we could get. If someone would give up a first rounder, I would do it in a second (preferably a lottery type pick). I do not think Darko will ever be a "player" in the league and needs to move on. The J O'Neal comparison is interesting, but most of the time in the NBA, guys show their worth early on. It is not like baseball where guys sit in the minors for a few years. Hell, Darko should at least be able to rebound well. I think most people would be OK with him if he made mistakes but brought the hardnose effort every night. But that is not the case. It would be great if we could get a nice effective bench guy for him as well........
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    sorry but you are reading quotes from questions asked to the coach. depending on which way they are placed in an article they can have different meanings. flip has also praised darko's play but you don't see those quotes in this thread.

    i don't get it that he's handing minutes to darko. i see that quote as him choosing to see what he has in darko instead of playing a vet that he knows to a certain point what he's going to get from him. darko responded very well to that. but i don't see that quote in your post.

    if darko was the problem why is lb gone and darko still here?? why wasn't the trigger pulled on the harrington trade if darko has such an attitude problem. the fact is darko isn't being given the chance to show what he has. darko isn't given clear goals he needs to achieve to get in the position he wants to be in. darko just simply can't be rewarded at this point in his career with the team we have.
  15. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Can we PLEEEEEEEAAAAASSSSE put this topic to bed already? None of you guys have found the magic argument that will defeat your enemies, and God knows you've tried. Put the time re-arguing Darko to some productive use. Make an ash tray. Carve a backscratcher. Anything. :P
  16. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    LanierFan

    Yes, but the fact that no one has found the magic argument doesn't mean that it can't be found, right? Failure to find something isn't proof of its absence.

    It's like trying to prove that there is no God. Impossible.

    Nevertheless, I agree, the topic's been beaten to death.

    The good news is that it must mean the team's been playing well, as otherwise we would be discussing why we should fire Flip or some other such topic.
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    good thing

    good thing we're not talking about that. fans would be gog crazy if the pistons were doing bad right now.
  18. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    The very reason for threaded discussions... you couldn't help but peak could ya :P
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    @LanierFan

    I don't know if you read the DNews Pistons Talk, but most of us know each other and there are definitely no hard feelings here. bball jay LIVES to argue for Darko. If we didn't have this thread, the poor guy might never post.

    Sometimes a bull just has to gore something, you know what I am saying?

    Btw (as micro throws Merc under a bus), these threads are mostly Merc's fault. He's the master of starting the longest running topics. :laugh:
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    most of the time in the nba guys that are lottery picks go to teams that they can play for. darko is a special situation how can he show his worth with barely any playing time?? most lottery picks log major minutes on a team with plenty of shots to go around. darko has had a 2 to 3 minute window after sitting on the bench for a couple of hours and playing every 8 or 9 games for 2 years. that's a pretty hard place for a raw 7 footer to show a glimpse of his worth. trading darko is a mistake right now. without playing him 5 games straight with 20 plus minutes you simply don't know what you have in the guy.

    did you watch the atlanta game?? did you watch the 6 block preseason games? did you see him shut the paint down the other night. his jumper looks great for basically a rookie in terms of the amount of experience. most big men don't develop that kind of jumper until later on in the career. yes. he dogs it in garbage time. 2 years of being the human victory cigar for lb can kinda change your perspective on garbage time. he brings it when it counts so that's all that matters to me.

    if you think darko doesn't give effort compare the way shaq defends the pick and roll and the way darko does. watch this year our luck with the injury bug will run out. people will discover darko and then he turned into a player all of a sudden. darko has the game he just needs the minutes and the coaching to tell him what the team needs from him. darko isn't a natural rebounder but he is a natural shot blocker. maybe you didn't read the whole thread but darko rebounds similar to sheed.

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