Is the low writing for SI? SI's smack down on Flip

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by 16 Mile, Oct 21, 2006.

  1. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I doubt that anyone in this forum wrote that summation. The quality of depth and foresight contained in that article can be summed up in one word: jejune.
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Does anyone here think I would write anything that glowing about Flip Saunders? I'm a nice guy, but not that nice...

    Besides, that came from an opposing scout.....A guy that's actually employed by the league and who NBA money thinks knows what he's talking about. Funny how he seems to get paid for his thoughts on other teams and he agrees with me to some extent. Although I'm the odd one out around here this season (and last season for that matter)...


    ...oh, and roscoe, you got it backwards...."The best offense is a good defense."

    We got our offense started from steals and rebounds that allowed us to push in the other direction. You can't plan a championship run by hoping they miss so you can run...You NEED D.


    ....and while I'm at it....Stern's idea of a successful league is not great basketball that everyone can enjoy watching and have fun rooting for their favorite team...It's record setting profits, which coincidentally, often have nothing to do with the overall quality of the sport. If this sport gradually became WWE with shoe contracts Stern wouldn't give a rats ass as long as he is soaking up the cash. This league could go the way of Deal Or No Deal and his Bilbo Baggins looking ass would still be up there grinning with pork between his teeth.
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Maybe a couple years ago, but Stern has changed the game into an all out offensive game.
  4. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sure, that may be true if you were one of the "starting 6", but anyone else and it was Mistake = Bench + DNP for the next game.
  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Larry Brown used to bench Okur for taking long jumpers.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It was a joke mon ami.

    You are NOT nice! ;)

    You're not the odd one out. It's just unreasonable to expect a forum full of people to be miserable all year win, lose or draw. The Pistons may not be the Bad Boys, and Flip Saunders may be a poor man's Don Nelson but I don't want to stop watching altogether.

    Gotta find a middle ground and deal with what is. With the Tigers resurgence, the suburbs will be heading to Detroit for games. The Pistons will not mess around too much with Saunders if the team isn't competitive because they will not be able to sell tickets.

    Demanding this team win a championship every year is going to lead to disappointment. It's not reality.

    Love JMax and watch Ben out of the corner of your eye. There's FUN to be had here, Flipball or no Flipball.

    You're missing my point. A guy like JMax can be our secret weapon. Corliss was a poor man's Dantley. JMax can be the same kind of player, but instead of using more finesse and skill, he can get the job done on raw devastation.

    A lot easier to play defense when Antoine Walker is on the bench with foul trouble and his backup is playing with 3 fouls in the 3rd Q.

    How we DID do it is the past. We don't have that coach or personnel. We can't change that. But we can find a way to exploit the new NBA, play as ugly as ever and win. And that will be marching Flip Murray and Jason Maxiell to the line 25 times a game.

    You're 100% correct. But this is true of everything. But we have our own way of rebelling against the empire. There is always room for renegades.
  7. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Thanks pass, I just learned a new word!
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    What did you guys do through the 90's?

    Most of the history of the Pistons has been losing seasons. Our goal in the 90's was getting out of the 1st round for crying out loud. Now we still have a team that is competetive enough the reach the finals.

    No offense but if some of you jumped on the bandwagon in the past few years or only watch when the Pistons play exactly as you want them to then you may want to consider jumping back off again.
  9. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Amen Brother
  10. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I believe that you are wrong on this.

    The amount of money that Stern makes is dictated by his salary. I don't know that he has a profit sharing or bonus arrangement. By far most of his income comes from non NBA sources. His NBA income is pocket money.

    It is the players, agents and owners in that order that are interested in the bucks that the NBA can provide.

    The owners are in it for the power and prestige and like Stern have other outside income sources that far exceed their NBA profits. To owners like Cuban the NBA is a prestige play toy.

    As far as the agents go that is how they make a good portion of their income so they are very interested in the NBA making more money so that their playes can get more money.

    But ultimately it is the players who mostly driven by the bucks. That is why most of them today never finish college before they start playing in the NBA. If the pay for the players in the NBA was $50,000 a year they would all play in Europe or finish college and forget about pro basketball.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    buddhafan, what I think The Low is saying is that the NBA as an organization is driven by profit over integrity of the game.
  12. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Now....that's the school I come from! Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. That's the LAW!

    That is absolutely what is happening! Stern is also lookin at jersey sales. It helps when the jersey is the "right city" and the "right player." That's why Miami is bein pushed, IMO. It's a "great weather" tourist attracting, multi-cutural/national city with a team that has a charismatic experienced, "legendary" coach; THE "premir dominant" big man, who also is charismactic; and a great young athletic wing player who plays with toughness and heart. In Stern's world, the rules MUST BE slanted to encourage the success of this type of team. It smells like WWF.

    Given the facts of the environment, the question becomes: "How can we win in this environment?" Detroit will never be the "glamor city" that Miami is but can still be marketed as THE symbol of American blue collar work ethic and toughness, much like Pittsburgh. Given Joe's "no-super-star" approach (KG in a "super-star" approach makes sense, but that's another story), the way to win is to observe the LAW.

    We need another big man to do that. We needed that even if we kept Ben, IMO. In fact, Nazr would have been a great acquisition had we kept Ben. With the rule changes, our offense will have to get better. We can still be a good man to man defensive team IF the priority is maintained and a "swarm" approach is used.

    I'm still on the fence with Flip, but leaning to the "anti" side. His commitment to tough defense will might be the difference-maker. Our upgraded assistant coaching staff has me a bit more comfortable here....so far. The key is getting our guys to "peak" at the right time. FlipS should have a good feel for that by now.

    This is the perfect season to experiment, IMO. Flip won't have the pressure to repeat (loss of Ben helps); we also have youngsters that need evaluation/experience, and starters that need more rest. Plus we have multiple picks in the upcoming (deep) draft. If we play our cards right, we could possibly make the finals while keeping our own pick in the 23-26 range.

    The hell with Stern! Just WIN baby! The future is bright indeed fellas! Bring on the season.

    GO PISTONS!
  13. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that Stern is due to get more from the league being a cash cow, but that his how he judges whether or not he is doing a good job and the league is a "success."

    IRREGARDLESS of how much he gets out of it, he could ruin this league for good, but as long as he keeps setting profit records he doesn't care because he thinks he's doing everything right. I'm just saying that the bottom line is not the determining factor of the league's success in my opinion, it's the quality of the game.

    Besides, it doesn't matter if everyone can assign the most "greed" to the players. By your logic, it would stand to reason that the players make more than the teams/owners and that's simply not the case. If that WAS the case there wouldn't be a player in the league making the kind of money that they do currently because an owner wouldn't stand for a player bringing in more than him. Do you think any of the Pistons make more than Bill Davidson? Better yet, do you think Bill Davidson would pay a Pistons more than he makes? Hell, Davidson wouldn't even pay Ben Wallace more than Sheed makes.

    Don't get it twisted the owners are the big money players in this league and the general public's assumption that all the greed falls on the players is simply incorrect and/or false. It is also easily perpetuated by the method of reporting player salaries and comments from players regarding such. This is also augmented by the general borderline dislike that sports fans maintain for NBA players in general and the fact that many of them are simply "Black kids from ghettos" who haven't "done anything to deserve" getting millions of dollars in most people's opinions. Oddly enough there isn't quite the feeding frenzy over owner profit statements, front office hirings, or ticket prices.

    It's easy for a team to publicize what a player asks or signs for and then let the sport show hosts and news hacks take off on that guy, but they don't point out how much owner rake in as well. Owners are billionaires, players are millionaires. I'm having a hard time being upset with players over their interest in cashing in. If there weren't 20,000 people filling arenas across the country, there wouldn't be an option for players to ask for millions.
  14. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I hate to be the voice of reality here, but I have a college degree, work my butt off, and have gotten 3 raises in the past year and a half and still don't quite make $50,000 a year. They would still go to the NBA, my friend.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    For sure. There is endorsement money that is outside the league salaries. Money to be made by the right guy with the right agent.
  16. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    RE this best defense/good offense bit, well, yeah -- I just wouldn't phrase it that way. You want to use your offense not just to score points, but to stress out the defense. Make them play it for 24 seconds, draw fouls, etc. Makes your job easier on your own defensive end. Makes you realize how important defense really is, when it's worth spending time on the offensive end doing things to serve the defensive effort.

    And it's sorta different then the whole ``take the first jumper available'' theory. Lots more thoughtful, IMO.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Thank you. :)

    I purposely phrased it that way to challenge conventional thinking. Expanding definitions is a large part of learning.
  18. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    No wonder I've failed in my quest to restore the lustre of LB's legacy. I am guilty of defensive phrasing.
  19. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Classic. :pound:
  20. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    From the look of last's night game, this guy may have a point. We shot 47%, but let Denver shoot 47.9%. Denver took 93 shots. We jacked up 13 3's, hitting 2 of them.

    We gave up 124 points in reg. Hope LB wasn't watching. Really hoping this was a fluke game.

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