Is Monroe a terrible defender?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Laimbrane, Mar 13, 2012.

  1. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    845
    In the last eleven games,
    Al Jefferson went 33 and 12 last night on 14-18 shooting.
    Andrew Bynum went 30 and 14 on 13-18 shooting.
    Cousins went 26/15.

    http://www.82games.com/1112/11DET14.HTM

    Monroe gives up a .558 efG to his counterparts. They've played against a lot of bad centers, which is why his opponents' production is so low, but when they play against a good one, those guys tend to dominate. Of course it's only his second year in the league, but if the Pistons are building around him, is this a major issue to be concerned about?
     
  2. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Dude's got no help at all.
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,630
    Likes Received:
    2,964
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Maybe. Tough to tell.

    His defensive rating (points allowed per 100 possessions when he is on the court) is the 2nd best on the team behind Ben Wallace.

    He has the most defensive win shares by a mile... mainly because he plays way more minutes than Ben Wallace. He is barely in 2nd on offensive win shares behind Stuckey and Monroe's total win shares per minute are tops on the team.

    This would all indicate that he is nearly our best defensive player and also nearly our best offensive player.


    While his opponents shoot a higher percentage against him than he does against them, it is interesting to see how they do it. They shoot 56% against him overall, but they also only shoot 55% against him in the paint (iFG%). This means that they are also shooting about 56-57% against him from outside the paint. Not sure how other team's centers are averaging that high of a percentage on what are effectively jump shots, but it looks like they are. The positives are that Monroe is not fouling them very often and they don't score as often as Monroe does on them (they just do it at a slightly higher efficiency on non foul FGA's). But that makes a bit of sense- if they are more selective, they will shoot a higher percentage. You see that with guys like Amir Johnson who aren't that skilled offensively, but who score opportunistically on broken plays, off of rebounds, or through guard generated opportunities when their defender is drawn off of them.

    When you look at how Monroe scores, it is much more devastating IMO. He only has a 51% overall FG percentage, but in the paint, he is converting at a 72% clip! This means that outside the paint, he is pretty ineffective and probably only does it when he has to.

    The 4% point differential between the two doesn't bother me after looking at how it is done. I would be much more concerned if the opposing centers were dominating GM in the paint and were shooting 72% on him. He's holding down the paint really well and is snatching a ton of rebounds to prevent the opposition from getting easy 2nd chance points.
     
    webz likes this.
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,213
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN
    Not terrible by any means in my book, but he's certainly a second year defender. Learning to defend at the NBA level is the hardest part about adjusting to the league. I also agree with BDL that he doesn't get a lot of help. Big Al and Bynum are loads and no on can stop them straight up.

    Monroe plays good position defense, moves well off switches, and is pretty good at getting back to his man after showing on the pick and roll. And he's getting better at not fouling (and maybe getting a little more respect from the refs). The thing I don't see him doing all that much is swooping in to block or alter shots by players someone else is guarding. Maybe he's concentrating on rebounding position, or maybe he just doesn't like getting his feet too far off the floor.
     
  5. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,860
    Likes Received:
    803
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    He has a long way to go. Just using th eeyeball test you can easily see that Max and Ben ar4e head and shoulders above GM, but I think he truly wants to be a good defender, he has good footwork and quick hands so I can see him getting better over time, he just needs to learn the nuances of defending. As far as Bynum, Cousins and Jefferson.......they're simply better than he is, and that's no slack on him, but as good as he is he is not the best front court player in the NBA. Right now he's not a good defender, but he's not awful, he's not CV.
     
  6. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    140
    Location:
    tartu
    definitely, trade him /sarc/
     
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    hard to place a value on a Piston player til JD offers them a second contract.
     
  8. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Searching for the "D" in Detroit
    Bynum is a bit better, but even with his recent struggles I can't agree on the other two. Jefferson is even worse defensively and a black hole, and Cousins is a center that shoots 43% (ie, Rodney Stuckey is a more efficient shooter than Cousinss), is extremely foul prone and just not a smart player in general.
     
  9. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I feel like you really haven't watched Bynum or Cousins play. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that you have seen less than 10 Lakers or Kings games this season, and I'm also betting that you didn't watch them all the way through.
     
  10. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I haven't really noticed Greg being a terrible defender. That being said, opposing teams do seem to get a fair amount of free chili, and as the man in the middle, it's Greg's job to keep that from happening.

    I'm not too worried about it yet. Greg is young and has plenty of time to learn. Plus, he's teamed up with a bunch of bench caliber help.
     
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,398
    Likes Received:
    830
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Greg is cruising on the defensive end. He played a lot tougher early on in the season but it didnt matter as we couldn't buy a bucket. Maxiell is the best help we can give him and he's like 6'5". He kinda has to pace his aggressiveness so he can stay out of foul trouble so Frank can sit him in the 4th.
     
    coynejeremy and Walter like this.
  12. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Searching for the "D" in Detroit
    Cousins is a horribly inefficient big man. Those are the facts. It's why I'm not a big fan of his.

    I haven't watched him play a ton, but I do know the guy takes way too many jumpers, is a similar level athlete to Monroe, and picks up a lot of dumb fouls.
     
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,423
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I really like Greg Monroe. I'm glad the Pistons picked him up.

    You should watch Cousins play. It might change your mind. He is young, strong, and talented. He will be a force in the NBA. He does pick up fouls, but not as much as he did last year. He also demands a double team on offense, and handles the defensive duties on a team that plays no team defense... so when guards get past Tyreke Evans, Marcus Thornton, or Isaiah Thomas (believe me, guards get past these guys) DeMarcus is left to defend the rim.
     
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,785
    Likes Received:
    2,893
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    If you put an average rim protector like Sam Dalembert next to Greg Monroe, Greg would look a lot better.
    The Pistons are asking Greg to do too much right now on the defensive end of the floor. The team needs another solid big to start along side of him and a bench big to back him up.

    The reality is that Jason Maxiel is at best, a #4 PF on a decent team. I can't wait for Joe to re-up J-MAX for 5 years at $35 mil in the off-season.
     
  15. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    aaahhhhh!!!! Sam Dalembert.....that would be nice, instead of the muppet....
     
  16. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    845
    I really doubt that Maxiell does anything but take his player option. He isn't worth much more than $5 million a year, and probably wouldn't start anywhere else.

    That being said, you can't ignore the effect that Maxiell has had on the team; the Pistons are a better team with him on the court and in the starting lineup, and he's a major reason they're back into playoff contention.
     
    Slippy likes this.
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,582
    Likes Received:
    3,563
    Location:
    Michigan
    PLAYOFFS? You're talkin' about PLAYOFFS?

     
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,306
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Playoffs..........is it that time already.
    When you say they're, are we talkin bout Pistons........:)
     
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    It is not unusual for Monroe to be the worst of the 5 Pistons defenders on the floor. I think this is why he sits so much in the 4th for Ben.

    I think it is somewhat easy to confuse him and get him to follow his man up to the FT line only to leave someone unguarded next to the hoop. This has been the issue to me, not that he isn't an athaletic shot blocker.

    He is not a total write off like Charlie G, but maybe it would help the team if he were a little more aggressive and used up some fouls in the name of physicality.
     
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,792
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Gender:
    Male
    It is quite possible that Frank is telling him to take it easy on the defensive end to avoid picking up fouls. He's got active hands for a big and he did play with more agressiveness before he became the key part of our offense.
     
    Nemo likes this.

Share This Page