Is It The Coaching Or The Players, Chemistry?/This Team Scares Me

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Taking all bets.......This team scares me.

    Is it the Coaching or Is It The Players? I don't see the desire or the passion that I have witnessed from Pistons teams over the last few years.

    Where is the hunger. Is Flip the problem or the solution? It's only the second week of the season, but I see a horrible trend here.

    Is there a chemistry issue? Does Flip coaching style fit players personality? Have the team become to familiar with each other? (starters).

    Do we need to change the environment, starting with the coach? Do we need to bring in another bonafide, all-star type player with Championship aspirations? (Dyess doesn't count, he is part of the problem).

    Do we need to find a defensive stopper in the mold of Ben Wallace in order to bring some nastiness back?
     
  2. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    All of the above. The players (the veterans in particular) aren't playing motivated, and Flip relies on them to carry the team. He won't pull a "starting 6" player when they're just going through the motions, but he has no problem pulling a young guy who's busting their ass out there when they make 1 mistake or miss 1 shot.

    Personally, I think the main guys (starters - Nazr + Dice) already have that seed in the back of their head that they can't win it all without Ben, so losing now isn't a big deal. We don't have a coach that can inspire them to think otherwise. Flip isn't capable.
     
  3. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    It just seems to me that once again, we have the wrong coach for the players we have.

    We lost our team spirit when the focus shifted from defense to offense. Maybe there is not as much satisfaction in out-scoring an opponent as in 'shutting them down'. We very often saw high-fives for a teriffic devensive play, like when Tayshaun overtakes a shooter at the other end of the floor and blocks the shot. Those things are much more deserving of high-fives than a jump shot or a slam-dunk.

    I guess I even include those defensive shut-downs and the resulting fast break with Rip throwing the ball up for Tayshaun to slam. Fast break points seem to me to be more defense than offense.

    If we get a coach like Lambs, next, who demands defense, we will regain the team feeling and the real approach to 'going to work' that he had before. That has been a Detroit thing and when they allowed it to die, we lost something.
     
  4. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I was hoping that Porter would keep a fire lit under their arse so they don't become complacent... it's not Flip's style (yes that's a weakness).

    Also C.B. & Sheed look slower this year (actually about the same against Cavs & Heat)... Ben covered their lack of lateral quickness.

    Lack of discipline falls on coaches and players... poor shooting should not be blamed on coaches as long as they're good looks.
    Over emphasis on outside shooting is on the coaches mostly (unless they aren't listening)
    Veteran starters should not have to be harped on to play "the right way"... if they miss assignments or are generally lazy they should be parked.... salary be damned... it sets the example of who is personally responsible for L's.
    Joe is watching very closely... I don't think he'll hestitate to make a move before the deadline if he doesn't see the effort/skills... fat cats won't work here.

    I'm seeing lack of effort & quickness as the main problems so far.
    There's one thing that's been a constant is that other teams are focusing on taking it inside (even though the Jazz & Warriors were unconscious shooting from outside).
    We will play better at home... but the killer instinct on the road seems to be missing so far.
    Good news is nobody is running away with the East and we've played twice as much on the road.
     
  5. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Since reports out of N.Y. said that Philly offered A.I. in a package for Chauncey (Joe said no thanks) it got me thinking about a deal with Philly.

    We trade Philly native Sheed, Delfino and one of our 1st rounders for Iguodola & Dalembert (having a nice season)... Interior defense and spark on the wings.... Jmax & Amir get more PT with Dice... Nazr is a solid backup.
    Philly doesn't own a 1st rounder next year (or there own 2nd).

    BTW, in case you're wondering about the Minny pick that's owed us...
    From Realgm:
    Minnesota’s own 2008 2nd round pick to Detroit, provided that Minnesota shall have the option to defer the conveyance by one year if it notifies the League Office 30 days prior to the 2008 Draft. If Minnesota elects to defer, then it shall trade its own 2009 2nd round pick to Detroit [Detroit – Minnesota, 10/31/2005]
     
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    What was the offer? I would imagine they probably wanted a lot more than just Chauncey, plus for the salaries to balance out. If its going to take 15 mil just to keep C next summer then it may be worth taking on the extra 3 mil of AI's 18 mil/yr contract. At least we would be getting a consistant guard.

    So far I am sounding the alarm just yet. Its still very early and you had to expect an adjustment period without Ben. Its unfortunate that we have to start an extended layoff after that kind of game.
     
  7. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    ``We lost our team spirit when the focus shifted from defense to offense. Maybe there is not as much satisfaction in out-scoring an opponent as in 'shutting them down'. We very often saw high-fives for a teriffic devensive play, like when Tayshaun overtakes a shooter at the other end of the floor and blocks the shot. Those things are much more deserving of high-fives than a jump shot or a slam-dunk.''

    Couldn't agree more. The last 15 minutes of Game 7 against the Cavs was notable for two things: the best defense we played in the playoffs and the most fun we had in the playoffs. There's no question, to me, that the differencemaker for us has been the defensive smotherings. That really did get them revved up, and the the fast-break points that came from that were what put teams down. It was never the points we scored off our set offense that brought us glory, it was the points we scored form hustling on D.
     
  8. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Say what you want about AI, but the guy is hungry for a title. I like those type of players. He is fearless and will take over a game especially if he sees is players are falling off. Additionally, he is a leader and won't mind getting in a players face if neccessary.

    Heck, send Wallace back home to Philadelphia, CB too. I would take Dalembert and AI in a heartbeat.

    Like today's news mentioned. We DO NOT have that sense of urgency and passions. I really don't think it will change.
     
  9. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree with you about AI. He is the intense team leader type of guy that we need right now. He wants to win, but he has never had the kind of talent around him that he would have in Detroit.

    The two biggest downsides are his monster salary, and his age: he's 31, and the way he plays, that's a big 31 (Chauncey is 30).
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    We'd be lucky to get the modern day AI. He's a team player and the fiercest small player of all-time. At this point I put him slightly above Zeke.....and Zeke is my all-time favorite basketball player.
     
  11. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Co-signed 100% armygirl. I really want to see AI playing in a Pistons uniform. And I think that the attitude of CB and the temperament of Sheed on a losing team is nauseating. I want our guys to care about whether they win or lose and to show that they care in the way they play. I can't stand to see one more interview with the laid back "it's early, we ain't worried, we cool" veteran starting Pistons. AAARRRGHHHH!
     
  12. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Brush up on your photoshop skills.

    AI makes like 18 million.
     
  13. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    zeke would own ai. ai makes who on his team better?? zeke is one of the best to ever play the game. when he got hot it was over. he didn't rely on free throws and flopping either.
     
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Chemisty is highly overrated. Talent level is way more important. Right now, Flip, the coach, is putting guys out there who do not have the talents needed to win games. Thats the coach.

    We are starting Mohammed, a guy who had a seriously hard time keeping the starting job over Nesterovic. Listen to what the players are saying. "Some players are not on the same page once the game starts" Wait a moment. You know full well it ain't any of the starters from last year. They have played together for so long there is no way they are not on the same page.

    At the same time, look who just got 12 minutes. Just 12 minutes. Mohammed only played 12 minutes last game. He was pulled rather quickly at the start of each half. Why call it chemisty? The guy just can't play.

    Next, you bring in subs, but don't use a point guard? What, how the heck do the plays get set up if you don't use a point guard. Hunter and Flip Murray are not point guards. Again, what is that got to do with "Chemisty."

    So far, on for a rather miniscule percentage of the time, Flip Saunders is using units that have a chance to do well. Way to little of the time.

    Its all about how much talent you have, what talents are needed, and can the coach comprehend any of this and play the right guys together to get wins. Unfortunately, the answer is no. Flip does not get it at all, and if he did, he is not capable of even completing any plans he does make. Apparently, he is just to nervous to think straight out there and remember his plan for the game is-in any area.
     
  15. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Of course I think Zeke is better, duhhhh. That's not what I was saying.

    I was referring to toughness. They haven't made a player tougher than AI. Zeke is second as far as toughness pound for pound, in my humble opinion.
     
  16. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    That's about the same amount that CB will command. Pay now or pay later Slippy. I am not much of a salary guru, but if you throw in Sheed, CB and fillers, it has to come up to 18 mil.
     
  17. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I second, third and fourth that Motown, AI has to be not one of the...but the toughest little guard in the NBA. He reminds me a lot of Isiah's toughness. You really don't see that too often.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    I would not give them Sheed. Sheed is our only decent front court defender. We still need him.

    I would give them CB, Dyess, Davis and perhaps Delfino and a draft pick.

    I know AI makes a lot but compare that to whatever CB would command next summer.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    The quote from Joe D was "we're not trading Chauncey"... that's why I wasn't looking at A.I.
    Love A.I. the player... but don't like the amout of shots he puts up... his salary or his downtime due to injuries (likely to get worse with age).
     
  20. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Hey Mercury, he may put up these amount of shots becuse he never had a good supporting cast. Here in the D, he would be surrounded with decent players who have been to the promised land.
     

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