Is Charlie V still a BoT?

At first, I thought the Pistons were increasing B0T's playing time simply to showcase his for a potential trade. But, recently, Villanueva is playing some of his best basketball since joining the team. Is this just the benefit of having a true PG? Will Charlie V revert back to his true BoT ways next game? Who knows? Either way, if he keeps playing at his current level, Charlie V may actually become a fan favorite.

I can't believe I just typed that last sentence.

Bucket o' talent is more fitting at this point.

I sure wish this thread included a poll...

Yes. Broken clocks are right twice a day. Now, if/when he gives that kind of effort every 3 out of every 5 games..............

A little premature for a thread like this don't you think guys???

Charlie has had a grand total of TWO (!) "decent" games in a row where he's actually gone out and earned his 'per game amount' of the 8 million dollars that the Pistons are paying him this year.
Now if you go all the way back to oh, say ...THREE games ago, you'll notice that Charlie put up a very turd-like 2 pts & 2 reb while shooting 1 for 8 and playing some of the worst defense that you'll ever see played in an NBA game.


= Bucket of Turd

Plenty of guys on the team have off nights. For a 3-point shooter off the bench, natural variance will lead to a lot of nights that are 0fer or 1fer.

Fortunately, we now have 43 games worth of data to go by and we don't have to rely on anecdotal evidence of what happened here or there.


On the season, he's sporting a PER of 16.7. That is his second best of his career and it is the 3rd best on the team after Drummond and Monroe (and after Calderon if you choose to use his).
His WS/min is at a career high and is 2nd best on the team after Drummond (and after Daye, who's gone, and after Calderon, who just got here).
He's leading the team in +/-.
He's 3rd on the team in block rate.
Best on the team in turnover rate.
2nd on the team in offensive rating and 3rd best in defensive rating.
2nd on the team in eFG% at .529
4th on the team in rebound %, a fraction behind our starting PF.
Comfortably in 3rd on defensive rebound % (he's a better rebounder than Maxiell, he's just outside the arc on the offensive end).
#1 on the team in 3point % (now that Tay and Daye are gone, not counting Calderon for anything on here yet).

On the defensive rebounding end, he's within 1 rebound of Monroe per 36 minutes. Never would have thought that.

He's had 37 out of 42 games with either 0 or 1 turnover.


With a PER over 16 and a PER against below that, I would have to imagine that the average NBA salary would be very close to $10M/year.


If you take everybody's WS/48 and compare to their salaries, here are the best to worst on the team:

1) Drum (rookie contract)
2) Singler (rookie contract)
3) Monroe (rookie contract)
4) Bynum
5) Calderon
6) Knight (rookie contract)
7) Villanueva
8) Maxiell
9) Jerebko
10) Stuckey
11) Maggette

There are 261 NBA players with over 600 minutes of court time this year (8.7 guys per team). Here is how our players rank in that list in terms of PER:

#14: Drummond
#31: Calderon (using his full season stats)
#33: Monroe
#82: Bynum
#85: Villanueva
#170: Stuckey
#174: Knight
#202: Maxiell
#226: Singler

Starter range is #1 through #150 (30 teams x 5 starters each).
Having 3 guys inside the top 33 is really great since the average team would have 1.1 players in that range. The 61 to 90 range should be about the 3rd best player on each team. We have Bynum and Villanueva in that grouping. Then the rest fall in about where you'd expect, in between the 5th best player on a team and the 7th. Pretty obvious to me that Stuckey, Knight, Maxiell, and Singler would each have a 50/50 chance of starting around the league (i.e. on good teams they might not, and on bad teams they might).

Not saying Villanueva should start since PER doesn't take everything into account, but it wouldn't be hard to justify either based on his production.


Long winded way of saying that his on court performance should be enough at this point to quit making fun of him. He shoots a lot of threes because they are worth more and they go in the basket.

Amnesty Charlie.
Contract extension for Charlie!

I personally don't have a problem with any of the guys on the current roster. I don't question their effort levels. Some are obviously more talented than others, but we don't have the personnel problems that many other teams have with bad characters, selfish players, etc.

Charlie is just doing what he has done throughout his career. He is getting minutes now and he's been playing with combinations of players where outside shooting was desperately needed to open things up.

I don't really care if we resign him or not, as long as the contract is reasonable. If it's not him, then hopefully we get another stretch PF, because I think it is a really valuable position to have, even if only off the bench.

What makes Singler's PER so low?

He gets you (per 36) 11.3 pts, 5.1 reb, 1.5 ast, 0.9 stl, 0.6 blk, shoots okay (44.2, 38.2, 78.8). For $1 million in his rookie year, I'll take it.

You are not a good person.

We as fans seem to believe that certain guys just need to fill out. I'll retort by asking his: what is the motivation for him to do so, seven years into his career? The man is paid.

He's 'gotten by' on the same exact stagnant skillset for years. Every day is a party.

Couldn't agree more. Welcome to the forum!

I'm skeptical about Charlie's motivation to do anything. I know he's had a few good games, but it's really not enough to make me forget about the planking, saunaing, no-defense-playing, tweeting, Chaz I've seen for the last few years.

It's not so much about whether or not he is cut, it's about his motivation to work hard to improve as a player. The Charlie that has Pistons fans impressed right now isn't any different than the Charlie that couldn't earn a starting spot for the Bucks... except, of course that he's older and richer.