Indiana Jan 28th 6:30 PM

Discussion in 'January 2007' started by max, Jan 27, 2007.

  1. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Billups 41 - Hamilton 43 - Prince 39 - Wallace 30 - Webber 28
    Hunter 10 - Delfino 11 - Maxiell 9 - McDyess 23 - Davis 6
  2. DetroitBasketball

    DetroitBasketball First Round Draft Pick

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    The minutes were a little better with Prince Sheed and Webber, but Chauncey and Rip were way overused.
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    Thats going to change once we get a backup guard. Just can't play Hunter too much very often. Everytime Hunter came in the score plummeted. trying to win a game here.

    Great all around game. Nice inside game by Sheed, Webber and Dyess.
  4. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Tayshaun was overused considering how innefective he was. 39 minutes for 6/2/2?

    This team still needs to replace Lindsey Hunter. He comes in and the offensive flow is shot to hell. Especially when we have these lineups with Lindsey, Delfino, and Dale on the floor at the same time. Teams go zone, and we don't have a prayer because Lindsey can't find the open man 90% of the time, and even if he does, the shot is going to be inconsistant. This leaves us with Rip going one-on-one and bricking 20-footers. A PG that can make plays for himself and for others would do wonders for this bench. Then again, it's the same story for the last 3 years, and Joe has done nothing to find a permanent solution. He's just too attached to his buddy Lindsey.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    67 free throws tonight! That is why I record every single game and start watching them an hour late.

    Those refs sucked.

    But even so, Sheed, Dyess, Webber and crew were actually playing a style of basketball that the other team didn't want us to play. It's about time for that.

    Webber is working out quite well, eh?
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Oh, and after reading about the "10 Trillion" stat on this forum earlier today, it was funny to see how close Carlos Delfino came to joining the club. 12 minutes and the only thing that was on his box score was a turnover and a foul.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Good win, 4 of 5 with CWEBB starting for us. Chris Webber had his best game as a Piston. 17 points, 13 rebounds, 3 blocks. The game stayed in halfcourt mode quite a bit, although Indiana did adjust that in the 2nd half when they realized our halfcourt D was just too solid. The Pistons scored not a one fast break point, so they had to show a fast break from Indiana for the fast break of the game.

    And just why would we ever want to push the ball when we have Sheed and Webber scoring all nite from the post? Sheed ended up with 20 despite just getting 2 points in the first half. Sheed also added 7 rebounds, 3 steals, and 5 blocks, I think 3 in the first few minutes of the game. Webber started quickly in scoring and rebounding, but then missed several post up shots-mostly hooks. But he got 7 offensive rebounds, and put a lot of them back in.

    Good and bad about the bench. The good, we played 10 guys. The bad, Hunter is still one of them, and he is simply not a point guard. Further, despite playing 10 guys, our starters were overplayed. We were up 13 in the 2nd quarter with about 6 minutes left to go, and in comes all the starters. Now, the starters had given us that lead, and the bench was just holding their own, but you know, the game is not won in the 2nd quarter. It can certainly be lost in the 2nd quarter though. One, here we were tiring our starters out with their bench still in, plus we were losing our lead to boot. In this game, it did not matter though as these starters took a tie game, and scored 10 straight in the closing minutes of the game. Guess they were not all that tired.

    Five minute heroes. Rip hit a midranger. Sheed ditto. Webber a tap back. That Webber tap back in particular gave us control of the game.

    We still used a lot of zone. Our zone still got burnt plenty, but at least for this game we did actually did mix zone and man to man a bit more effectively.

    Maxiell seriously needs to work on short shots. He looks a bit lost in shooting an 6 to 8 footer. Better get a lot of practice, cause he keeps getting shots at that range in games. However, it is also my observation so far this year that Jason Maxiell finds it quite difficult to get a comfort level offensively in very short minutes.

    Dyess scored very impressively in this game, especially early 2nd quarter. But we could not make defensive stops to increase the lead. In the 4th quarter, our bench kept them from scoring the first few times down, but could not score themselves. Well, considering how little they play as a unit, I mean, its always a different mix, what can anyone expect.

    Dyess had plenty of bounds with those points. We held O'Neal to 1 of 8 shooting in the first half, but he got hot in the 4th. He scored once on Maxiell, and we pulled Maxiell from the game. Then he went nuts scoring on Sheed. Maxiell was not the problem.

    Dale Davis did not do much, yet he gave us energy. Even though he ended up not doing anything under the basket on offense, he was there, despite Indiana's best efforts to keep him away from the basket. It had to have helped wear Indiana out a bit.

    Tay seemed to, on occasion, realize Dunleavy was guarding him, and got agressive on O. But you know, since we had an inside game going, why would we really want Tay or Rip to score all our points anyway. Or Billups. We got 37 points between Sheed and Webber, mostly inside, while even Dyess could count quite a few points as inside scoring. Thats a shift in the right direction. GO PISTONS!!!!!

    comments after looking at boxscore:

    Indiana did end up outrebounding us by a bit. Kudos to CB and Rip, as they quietly nailed 19 of 20 free throws between them. Yep, our starters played too much. Fortunately, Webber got into foul trouble and played more along the lines of minutes he should play. One game further from when Flip manages to tire him out and leave him worthless to us. Delfino got nothing in 12 minutes, but he still gave us energy out there, helping with the ball handling, and spending time gaurding their hottest player, Granger. Delfino did not do that well defending Granger, but not bad either especially considering all the helpout D he was playing too. But again note, it was Delfino we called upon to defend their hot player. That is a compliment to him, I won't call this a bad game for Delfino.
  8. 4cwebb

    4cwebb First Round Draft Pick

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    Not too crazy about twice blowing double-digit leads in this game to let the Pacers back into it, but quite happy with the decision to take full advantage of Sheed's hot hand in the second half. Also happy that Sheed obliged by working hard on the block time and again to get his buckets. Glad to see CWebb get involved on the offensive glass, but I'd also like to see him end up with more than 6 defensive boards.

    A win is a win after the disappointing loss to the Wiz. Time to get that one back next.
  9. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Other than McDyess, the bench was non-existent stat wise
    Delfino >>0-0 shooting, 1 foul, 1 turnover
    Hunter>>>0-2 shooting, 1 rebound
    Maxiel>>>0-3 shooting, 1-2 FT,1 rebound,1 assist,1 steal, 1 pt and 4 fouls
    Davis>>>0-2 shooting, 1 rebound, 1 assist,2 fouls, 1 TO

    Delfino, Hunter, Max and Davis all contribute, but not every night because the sub patterns are inconsistent. We need still need someone other than Dice who can contribute everynight, not just once a week. I know that Flip jr is inconsistent, but sometimes Flip sr needs to bring him in when Hunter is flatlining. ..wait did I say that?? Joe just needs to pull the tigger before the trade deadline to get this offense clicking on all cylinders before the end of February.

    Last year we relied on a bench of Dice and Delk and fell apart in the end of the second round and went fishing early in the 3rd. :fishing:
  10. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    What is wrong with Tay? I think he needs a physical or something. He just looks very tired and worn out. He has not energy. I look at some of the games last year and he looks more fit. I hope this will not linger all year.
  11. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Below is a list of some things that Flip Saunders did correct tonight. Some of these items have been areas of criticism during the season:
    • Most important, Flip coached the Pistons to a win.
    • The win was Flip Saunders 500th career victory. You don't win 500 basketball games without knowing a little bit about the game.
    • Flip used a 10-man rotation.
    • The offense is running extremely smooth with the starters in the game. The ball movement and the cutting is sharp. The Piston starters jumped out to a 23-8 lead in the first 9:49 of the game. That is 120-point per game pace.
    • The Pistons were attacking the basket more on offense. This resulted in 38 free throws (Detroit made 33).
    • On several possessions, Pistons ran successful plays after a timeout for buckets.
    • The Pistons milked plays that were working. For example, the Pistons went down low to Sheed on the first 5 possessions of the 3rd quarter. Only after Sheed turned the ball over and then the Pacers put O'Neal on him did they give up on this strategy.
    • When units were not working, Saunders changed it up. For example, when the reserves started to stink it up in the 4th, the starters were back in quickly to close the deal.
    • Zone defense was only employed on a couple of possessions the entire game.
  12. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    This game had Sheed written all over it… with the first half being a non factor (other than getting in foul trouble)… the 2nd half he scored 18 of his 20 points.

    The plan coming in had to be keeping O’Neal in check after him averaging 25. 5pts & 13.5 reounds… the results was a moderate success… he still got his 26 pts but shot just over 40 % while pulling down 10 boards… he was also in foul trouble most of the game reducing his effectiveness on defense.
    I loved the Indy trade because of the matchup advantage we have over Murphy & Dunleavey… they also have no playoff experience

    We took advantage of some mismatches (Sheed & Rip) and did not on another Tay on Dunleavey.

    1st Qtr:
    Dunleavey started the game by driving for an uncontested dunk… the interior defense was slow to react throuout the game (can’t blame this on Nazr)… the one consistent for the Pistons was Rip getting open for easy looks inside and out… Chauncey did a good job finding the open man and keeping the T.O.’s down (only one t.o. in the 1st qtr).
    Sheed was ineffective in the 1st qtr… when we did dump it inside he didn’t recognize the double team or missed his shots…he was able to post up Murphy once and he alsohad 3 early blocks…. He went out with 6:33 after drawing his 2nd foul
    Cwebb looked uncomfortable posting up J.O. and missed his first few shots.
    We were having trouble protecting the defensive glass giving up 13 O boards for the game (we outrebounded them 46-41)
    I thought Webber would have better luck taking O’Neal out of the paint…. He instantly improved when the Pacers brought in Murphy.
    We went on a 15-4 run and had them completely confused on offense, giving them only 12 pts for the qtr and shoot only 25%… You could tell which team didn’t play yesterday and the practice time proved to be successful early on.
    Antonio went on a nice roll…
    Chauncey also started the game making his own shots instead of deferring until later…. 27-12 after one qtr

    2nd qtr:
    We start off the qtr with Maxiell, Dice, Rip, Delfino & Hunter… Pacers using Granger, Armstrong, Foster & Diogu. Pacers start off in a zone and have some early success.
    Delfino tends to help on everything while leaving his man for open shots. He needs to learn when to hold em and when to fold em… just not much of a positive influence in this game.
    Dice is red hot and has 10 pts with over 8 minutes left in the qtr… Rip has 8 by this time… he was also active on the glass and going after loose balls…. We continue to do a good job of finding the hot hand (Rip & Dice).
    Maxiell was also a non factor this game… he wasn’nt being fed the ball either… Dice was given the rock instead (understandable)
    Lindsey bothered Tinsley… this unit gave us a 35-20 lead before Sheed came in for Brahma and C.B. in for Rip.

    Tinsley couldn’t hit anything early shooting only 1-5. Sheed continues to struggle missing a wild runner and making a bad pass…. Missing a tre
    O’Neal was non exsistent to this point only having 3 rebs and 3 points. Pacers just look tired at this point.
    Cwebb starts feeling it and now has 6 points 3 assists and 9 boards early on… man he sure has that ball on a string… he is joined at the hip with Rip.
    We spend too much time in this qtr yapping at officials as the Pacers go on a 21-9 run and cut it to 47-43 by half time… Tinsley starts his assault on CB getting inside at will (a common theme for the rest of the game… Part of earning a max contract should be defensive play…. The good news is that Dunleavey & Murphy can cover anyone as they are too slow of foot… only 2 t.o.s by half time (8 for the game).

    3rd:
    Oneal is only 1-8 at this point.
    The message at half time was clear to everyone… get Sheed the ball inside when Murphy is on him… and they did 4 or 5 times in a row to start the qtr… two makes… one miss (and a put back by Cwebb) and one dribble off the foot… Indy counters with O’Neal defending Sheed and the well dries up for a while…. Sheed was also active early on defense stripping Murphy and another block (5 for the game!)… he did give up an ally Oop to O’Neal… Sheed was also fouled shooting a 3…. Overall an excellent start of the qtr by Sheed as he has 10 pts with 6:37 left in the qtr.
    Tinsley starts going off again so we switched to zone but it didn’t work… gave up an O board and a midrange shot by Tinsley… Tay picked up Tinsley with some success.
    Dice hit the deck hard and it looks like an IR situation… he gets up and is obviously sore (missed an easy shot).
    For some reason the Pacers put Murphy back on Sheed and he continues his abuse… I think Indy will adjust next game.
    We start sagging on Tisley and he finds his mid range shot… it’s simply a bad defensive matchup for Chauncey… Indy goes on a 11-3 run with Delfino & Davis in the lineup… Oh yeah… let’s not try Jmax guarding J.O. anymore… it ain’t pretty.
    End of 3rd 74-65 Pistons

    4th:
    Maxiell continues to struggle missing a bunny and an offensive rebound while O’Neal abuses him again…. 74-67 with 9:47 left… Sheed and Tay back in. Tay finally gets inside for an easy bucket (where ya been buddy?)… he finishes with 6 pts (3-7 shooting).
    O’Neal is hot this qtr … and when we double him the result is a wide open make for Dunleavey.
    Hunter isn’t much of a factor he goes out for C.B. at 7:28 and we’re only up 77-74 as Indy goes on a 11-3 run… it starting to look like another late game collapse. Blaha mentions that Chauncey has quietly put up 14 points so far… no kidding 14?... Armstrong nails a tre and we’re tied up at 5:44 left… here we go again.
    Cwebb fakes O’Neal out of his jock and slams for and and 1 (misses ft)… Rip goes Indy 500 on Dunleaveyfor a wide open mid range shot… Cwebb makes a put back and there’s all of a sudden some breathing room 85-79 with 3:44 left… we coast from there as the Pacers get a case of cramps and fold the tent.
    Sheed goes from 2 pts in the first half to 20 for the game and we pull out a much needed W 95-87… I’d hate to see the boards if we blew this one.
    Notables:
    Cwebb 17 points… rebs and 3 blks
    Sheed 20 points (6-16)…blks
    Chauncey 17 pts 10 for 10 FT and only 2 t.o.s
    Rip 21 points (6-19) 9-10 fts
    Dice 13 pts in 23 minutes
    Delfino- goose eggs
    Jmax- Michael Curry numbers
  13. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm not using this as an excuse (I'll leave that up to Billups), I'm just throwing it out there.

    Tay has played over 40 minutes in a game 7 times this January, compared with only 3 last January.
  14. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Good news: the Webber playbook is working. That starting five actually had a dominant feel at times.

    People mention the bench. The bench has no reliable scoring, period. The are not even that good defensively. We have seen enough of this movie. Doesn't matter if you like Delfino or Maxiel or whoever. Joe has to address this issue.

    We held them to under 90. That, I believe is the cut off point in the regular season for us to consistently win.

    I still cringed at few times at how they got open looks. When we zone, we give up open looks without the other team really doing anything but pass the ball around. It stops our momemtum. We don't get as many steals with the zone. Zoning is usually stategic designed to address a star player (like Wade) or a team that can't shoot or to help out with a big front line.

    Joe, please get that second team some help. The first team is starting to get that dominant feel that we are accustomed to.
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Tay was 3-for-7 tonight.
    Chauncey was also 3-for-7.

    I don't think Tay was awful. The guy does not force shots. He certainly defers on offense more than he should. There is a limited number of shots to go around, though, and the Pistons had 4 guys that took over 10 attempts (Dyess-11, CWebb-14, Sheed-16, Rip-19). When teammates are hot, Tays numbers go down. It's nothing to be alarmed about.
  16. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    And it's definately showing. I thought he was just defferring to everybody else, but it's starting to look like fatigue.

    We're burning out the starters (well 3 of them anyway) again. Rip will die before the play-offs if he keeps this pace.
  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sprocket Cap

    Detroit 95 / Indiana 87

    It doesn’t seem to matter who is inside those blue jerseys, a game against the Pacers is always a tough intense battle. Tonight the Pistons got win 500 for Flip Saunders behind 37 points, 20 rebounds, 8 blocks, and 3 assists from Wallace and Webber. McDyess’ 13 points and 11 boards finished the dominant front line performance.

    The first quarter opened with a very active Rasheed Wallace. He picked up a couple of points, a couple of boards, 3 blocks, 2 fouls, and his 13th technical of the season before heading to the bench halfway through the first with the Pistons up 11-6 and Indiana shooting 30%. The Pistons don’t let up though and end the first up 15, 27-12. They have eight assists and no turnovers in the quarter.

    The Pistons hold the lead at 15 for the first four minutes of the second behind an offensive barrage from McDyess who reaches 12 points, 6 boards, and a block by the 7:36 mark. From then on it’s all Indiana who outscore the Pistons 23-12 the rest of the way. Indy shoots 53% in the second and puts together a 21-9 run to end the quarter down four at 47-43.

    The third starts pretty much like the first, with a bucket by Wallace, followed by one by Webber, giving Webber 9 points and 11 boards on the night. Play gets ugly for a couple of minutes ending with O’Neal fouling Wallace on a three point try. Rasheed makes all three free throws. A Webber basket and a Wallace 3 put the Pistons up 64-49 at the six minute mark. Rasheed has 14 points in the third, but the Indiana offense beings to click and they outscore the Pistons 16-10 the rest of the way. The third ends with the Pistons up 9, 74-65.

    Indiana makes a run to start the fourth while the Pistons go cold, starting the quarter 0-8. The rest of the fourth is back and forth intense basketball. O’Neal’s fifth foul around the six minute mark opens some room for the Pistons who push the lead back to six behind a jumper from Rip and a nice layup after an offensive board from Webber. The lead is back to ten by the two minute mark. From then on in, it’s mostly a free throw shooting contest for the Pistons who make up the final margin behind four from Rip.

    The Pistons continue to shoot the ball poorly, 37% FG, 29% from three, but make up the difference tonight at the line, shooting 33 for 38, and outscoring Indiana by 13 from the stripe. The Pistons finish with 8 turnovers, after only committing two in the first half. McDyess, Hunter, Delfino, Maxiel, and Davis play off the bench but only McDyess makes a field goal (finishing 4-11 in 23 minutes).
  18. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    One more if I may. When the bench struggled against the Pacer zone, Flip ordered them to pick up the pace and run on every stop. For a minute we were able to get decent looks before the zone could get set.
  19. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    When Tayshaun Prince tries to post up anyone taller than 6-4, the result is almost invariably a forced hook shot or turnaround jumpshot from him or a forced 3 point attempt from the wing player on his side of the floor (usually Rasheed). It's true that he rarely drives out of control into a triple-team to try some crazy off-balance floater, but the result is the same: a low-percentage shot that frequently triggers the opponent's fast break.

    When Tayshaun Prince tries to create shots rather than finishing them, bad things happen.
  20. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Ahb,

    Tay is a flow player and our offense is rarely in the flow. Posting Tay takes so long to develop that unless there is a glaring mismatch, right, we often don't get a good shot. When we post Tay, we don't have a kick out available either. It is just one on one basketball which I think is the reason our offense has been sub-par.

    With Webber, now they have to pay a lot of attention to the middle and things seem to be more open. Tay should be a spot up shooter and a cutter with an occasional post up.

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