I Vote to Take A Step Back This Season If Necessary

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    My viewpoint is close to Jammertimes (Don't sacrifice the season but give the kids a chance)... I think everyone wants the youth to play more but what is up for debate is the amount of time and how many players.
    Let's start with a couple facts... the more PT for young players = less PT for the vets.
    Less experience = more mistakes... T.O.'s, bad shot selection, missed assignments, rushing plays etc (each player has different levels).
    More mistakes lowers the chances of winning.
    IMO, the right way to go about this is phase them in gradually... meaning Blalock, Amir, Brahma & Delfino don't all get significant minutes to start with... this preseason is important in determining which players deserve the majority of bench minutes to start with.
    If given a fair chance they should play themselves into or out of the rotation.... also depending on how the vets perform... if Dice looks like he's slowing down then Maxiel gets more PT.
    I'm ok with Amir & Blalock starting the season in the D-League so that Delfino & Brahma don't have to look over their shoulder for the first few months... If they're not getting it done (defense is a big factor) then give someone else a shot.
    At this point I'm not sure that our youngsters are better than what other teams have coming off the bench (you know all the teams with better draft selections and proven bench players).
     
  2. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I totally agree Merc.

    I think we need to slowly but steadily increase the young players' PT. I'm not talking about major minutes to start with, I still think they need to earn that. But the consistency is the key for me. Last year, Flip was all talk about getting guys like Delfino into the game. Then he'd go several games without ever seeing the floor.

    I don't think there is any magic number. If the kids play well in limited minutes, increase them. If you see them start to struggle (not from mistakes, that'll happen, I'm talking about being overwhelmed, tired, losing confidence, etc.), back off a bit. They aren't going to go from bench scrubs to starters overnight. Its a long season and if we start gradually from game 1, come playoff time, we'll be (hopefully) rested, peaking at the perfect time of the year, and know exactly what our bench can or cannot do.

    I think that our 2 D league spots need to be filled all season long. Either by the same 2 players, or by rotating them in and out. But I think we'd be missing a great development opportunity if we didn't take full advantage of the entire D league season.

    I think AJ and Blalock would benefit the most from being down there. JMax is the most NBA ready of the group and its put up or shut up time for Delfino. With Samb and Acker (maybe for good) playing over in Europe, everyone will get PT and will be able to develop their own games without coming at the expense of another young guy.

    None of them should just be left to rot on the bench. Its counter productive. Not only do they not develop that way, but it hurts their trade value (some guy named Darko?) if Joe decides to try and move them.
     
  3. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    integration of youth

    doesn't mean you'll lose games. orlando integrated darko in and it didn't cost them games. i know we have a better supporting cast that we can cover up for our young players than orlando does.


    we need to stop looking at giving young players time as instant losses. i mean a lot of the games we won last year the starters were absolutely stinking it up. i don't see how having a young player in there stinking it up and still coming back to win is different. sometimes when we were stuck in a rut and couldn't score a point last year jmax could have came in and fixed that.
     
  4. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Just completed my registration form for that club!

    SAY THAT!

    I see this a little differently. I'd rather see DD and LH start the season on the inactive list. Save them for the second half and playoffs. Give the youngsters some time early. I'm worried about Delfino though. Don't look like he really WANTS it. Seems like there will always be somebody looking over his shoulder. If it ain't one of the young guys, it will be Dupree.
     
  5. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i'm of two minds on this. the first mind says, who cares, flip's not going to play them either way. but that's not very helpful or fun and it really defeats the purpose of having a forum!

    my second mind says, play them! not because it will help down the road, and not because i'm resigned to a step backward. but just for the opposite reason: cause it will be a step forward! Sure, it will be tough at first, there will be miscues (but will they really be that much more damaging than the inconsistent effort and abilities of the vets? will it be tougher than the 15 and 15 start two years ago, in which we still made the finals?). It's 82 games to the playoffs, 40 or so to the all star break. I believe that playing the kids more now (before they "earn" it --- and i especially question that "earn" logic with this particular set of kids: i'm thinking of johnson, jmax, blalock, and carlos because they play hard when they play, have already shown the ability to make contributions and to improve weak areas) will result in decreased mistakes as they relax into their respective "games" and levels and roles. Ultimately, I'd be that by mid to 2/3 of the way through the season, the pistons would start to gel as a team with 10 or 11 legitimate contributors, and they'd begin an ascent that would carry them through the playoffs. They'd surely still win 50 games, which will be plenty to get into the playoffs. And i don't care, in such a scenario, about hca or about who they'd have to play because i think they'd be ready.
     
  6. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    The question is...is our bench better than it was last year??
     
  7. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Prof, I agree............however, you missed one point - it would also allow the starters to get some rest!!!!!!!!
     
  8. Abe Froemen

    Abe Froemen First Round Draft Pick

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    If the Pistons tank a season just because they lost Ben they are stupid. I am all in favor of playing young guys but.. not if it comes in the way of winning games. I was pissed as hell that Flip pulled a LB and would play the starters with a 15-24 point lead. If you can’t count on your bench when you have that big of a lead they don’t deserve to be in the league. It was wasted opportunities for guys like Delfino and DD who could use the time, and the rooks to get their feet wet. If he pulls the same BS again he should get canned end of story. We don’t need the best record again but we better make it to the conference finals again or better.
     
  9. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Absolutely right Abe. Better bench management could go along way toward championship hopes and youth development.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Jmax yes... Amir yes... Delifino maybe.
     
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    I happen to believe that they can help us win more games than we would lose.

    The past 2 season have been about the core vets getting burned out in the playoffs.

    Amir and Blaylock probably would make their fair share of mistakes but its not like Mohammed, Dyess and Hunter are exactly mistake free. Would Amir and Blaylock make up for it with energy plays? I don't know.

    Maxiel went to a 4-yr program and is in his 2nd season. He is ready.

    Other teams win championships with young players in their rotations ( even some rookies ) so why can't we? Who made up this Piston rule that talented young players are going to bring your team down because we seem to be the only team both current and historic who follows it to the letter.
     
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    no our bench isn't better than what we had last year. last year we had darko, mcdyess, jmax, amir, acker, delfino, evans, dale davis, lindsey and arroyo coming off the bench.

    i think the addition of flip murray, blaylock and dupree is < the loss of darko, arroyo, evans.

    but that doesn't mean it isn't good. it also doesn't mean we shouldn't play them. we have to develop sometime. i'd rather develop during championship runs instead of the championship run then blow it up type of team building.
     
  13. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I disagree. I think the bench is better this year. I think the potential is the same and maybe if they got any burn, they would be equal but right now, Maxiel, Amir, Delfino all have more experience under their belt...it might not be all NBA experience but it is something.

    We have a nice sparkplug type back court with Flip and Hunter. I think Flip is a better fit than arroyo since arroyo could distribute but to whom? Nobody on the 2nd until could score.
     
  14. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    ...except for Dice.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Maxiell and Johnson have a better idea of what it is to be a professional, from preparation to big game atmosphere.

    AJ has also grown a couple inches, and Max has slimmed down and worked on his conditioning.

    Those two alone are much better than last year. And while Mo Evans could shoot, Murray can attack and work off the dribble a whole heck of a lot better.

    The overall talent level may be the same, but it has been spread out.

    Unfortunately, Delfino has not taken the next step to be a threat off the bench. He's a complimentary played surrounded by guys who prefer to work off isolations (Murray, Dice, Maxiell). If he can't hit a spot up jay, then his only offensive contribution looks to be in transition.
     
  16. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Right. The other 4 guys...

    @Roscoe...Delfino can rebound as well.
     
  17. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    jmax was ready last year. he is slimmer now but he still could jam the ball through the hole. his mid range shot was there last year. amir was shooting a high percentage in the nbdl last year. yeah they had experience but they are basically in the same situation as they would have been if the bench was allowed to play last year. they would be getting thier first real nba action.

    arroyo to mcdyess was basically unstoppable. mcdyess scoring output dropped quite a bit when arroyo left. i don't see jmax having a problem dunking one of arroyo's dimes. darko can score too. i think lindsey was the only one on the 2nd unit that couldn't score. i think last year flip wanted the second unit to play exactly like the starting unit and that is what messed them up. he didn't play the second unit to thier strengths.
     
  18. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    delfino drops lots of assists. he also makes lots of pass before the pass plays.

    but i will say that if flip wants him to stand in the corner and wait to shoot the J then yes delfino won't be effective in the half court. fino needs the ball in his hands and moving around to be effective. i think we can run the offense through him. he also feeds the post better than lindsey.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    When was the last time Delfino took his man off the dribble and scored?

    Basically, he gets his ops off of passes. Passes from players who play within isolation, or with the starters, who are all very good jumpshooters and take them as quickly as they are available.

    I'm sorry. I don't care about unrealized potential. Delf is a bad shooter. Until he can string several good shooting games together, and hit his FTs, he's a bad shooter. It's getting a little ridiculous for people to call a guy who misses a lot of shots, a good shooter in a slump. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON A LONG TIME!
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i don't remember but i do remember lots of time delfino took his man off the dribble and someone else scored. he's more of a point forward.

    he never creates his own jumpshot. he can go to the hole and create for himself. i think he's chosen to be more of a setup man. he'll never be a spot up shooter. i still think he can shoot though.

    yes. it's been going on a long time but the circumstances behind it has been going on a long time too. i've always said delfino needs consistent playing time and time to get into a groove to get his shot going. he isn't the instant offense off the bench like delk. if the pistons want consistency from delfino they will have to give him consistent playing time. be patient his shot will come around.

    he shot 53% in fiba play and 41 % from 3 pt land.
     

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