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I Vote to Take A Step Back This Season If Necessary

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by armygirl, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    After hearing, reading and chatting about our Pistons this year, maybe it's time to take a step back if necessary in order to improve the team for the future.

    JMax, Amir Johnson, Blalock, I am on the team that now says let the kids play. If it means trading McDyess, Nazr or whomever, let the kids play.

    It appears that AJ has superior athletic skill sets that can only be improved on by letting him play with the big boys, not the NBDL. Let them play.

    If this means taking a serious back seat this season, so be it.

    I really don't think that we will be that bad if we allowed these kids to get some minutes mixed in with our regular starters.

    I think that we are onlyone of a handful of teams that don't play our young talent. The one fear that I have this year is all of the new young talent that is coming into the league. Some teams played their youngsters tremendously last year, and/or doing this pre-season to see what they will bring. The difference between the Pistons and these teams is, their youngsters will get a lot of playing time, ours won't.

    Our rebounding is horrific, Dyess and Sheed are not rebounding, no one in the starting lineup wants to go after the ball. If we are not rebounding, which the numbers have been horrible all pre-season and actually was not impressive last year, Ben achieved indiviudal honors, but our team rebounding was not that good. If we are not rebounding, the fast breaks will be far and few in between, history has already stated that rebounding is essential to winning.

    I know you guys continue to be high on McDyess, however, I see his skills deteriorating, he will never, ever be the guy who is going to go in the paint after the ball, putbacks or slam dunks, Dyess still suffers from shell shock and is only a shell of himself, content on shooting those mid range jumpers. If those shots stop falling (oh boy), he is a poor rebounder/shot blocker, makes a ton of mistakes on offense, (poor concentration)lets get someone in here before he is too broke down to bring any trade value.

    If JMax and AJ are the only ones who are not afraid to go after the loose balls, rebounds i.e. let them play. They will make tons of mistakes, but it's all good.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Army, that post is what I have been thinking for the last couple weeks. The kids look like the future could be bright, particularly with our upcoming draft, but this year it doesn't feel like we are contenders.

    We won't be able to trade McDyess (I don't think). But it's just not right for him to automatically get minutes at the expense of Amir and Maxiell. He really is not the same player, and going into his 3rd season with healthy (as they might ever be again) knees, we have to assume he's already hit his plateau.

    I'm more excited about this year than I was a month ago. It's Will Blalock and Maxiell that have turned me around. Now I hope they don't get completely buried on the bench during the season. Not unless we are contending.
     
  3. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Roscoe do you have any more specifics of the McDyess trade clause. I wonder if there is anything in that contract (in small print) that has any exceptions.

    If Joe D is seeing the same things that we are with JMax and AJ, he may find something.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If Hobbs or Merc pop by, maybe they can fill in the details about players with trade bonuses and option years.

    I'm late for a hot date with a Tim Hortons coffee.
     
  5. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    This might be a tad bit premature.

    Let's see if we can win with this team, before we jetisson the season. Flip has made a big effort this preseason to give the youngin's some playing time. Its defiintely something to get excited about. But, keep in mind, we still have no idea how well this team is going to play. Its just the preseason. I've been on the entire Flip system sucks parade for as long as I can remember, but I am a firm believer in a fair shot. Let's see if this dude can do the unimaginable and win the Flip way. If we see signs of mediocrity I am all for giving the youth big minutes, shaking up some things with the starters and canning Flip to give one of our assistants a shot. However, if we do end up being competitive, our best bet is to use our young talent when appropriate and gradually work them into the lineup as originally planned. One thing is for certain Maxiel needs to get time. Period. He's earned it, the HARD way. Even more deservant than Delfino.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't think we should jettison the season, but perhaps revise our expectations. You know, all Gangsta Dharma Chameleon style.
     
  7. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    I haven't looked up any numbers cause I'm lazy, but I'm pretty sure I've read in this forum that Nazr averaged far less minutes than Ben.... (foul trouble or something)

    So assuming Dyce's minutes stay the same, and Nazr's are less than Ben's wouldn't that leave ~10 minutes for JMax?
     
  8. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    least year's playoffs should've shown to everyone how little the regular season record or home advantage means. I wouldn't care to see our team winning "only" about 45-50 games but trying to play the given material.
    Last season the team had an impressive start but after the all star break, opponents knew our strategy and the wins didn't come that easy any longer. There were also hardly any blowouts. So I hope Flip doesn't primarily look at the regular season record (since he's already shown more than often enough he can win during the regular season) and will try do develop chemistry, the youngs and as many different line-ups as possible.
    I don't think anyone really expects this team to be a major contender. I prefer the outsider-role anyway.
     
  9. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Okay, perhaps what I am really trying to say is let's not give up championship aspirations so early. If we did decide to change our plan to a "develop the youth" strategy, we've got 80+ games to play with. No need to jump the gun. We jumped the gun with trading away Carlos and Darko when it wasn't neccessary and look where that got us.
     
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    trade mcdyess

    why all this trade talk with mcdyess??? who are we going to trade him for??? in the east you need as many big men as possible. yeah i'm all for reducing minutes if he isn't performing but trading him away is jumping the gun. this preseason was not for the vets it was all about the youth so i would not judge any of thier performances too harshly.

    mcdyess is a spot up shooter at this point in his career and that's not a bad thing cause when he gets going he really provides a lift off the bench. some people say he's reached his peak but i disagree. i see more rebounds and more points from him this year and he's an underrated defender. he gets a lot of ticky tack fouls for some reason flip needs to go after the refs about that.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Maybe we could trade him to the Knicks for Cato! :tinfoil3:
     
  12. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: trade mcdyess

    When vets get ticky tack fouls, I believe that is a sign of old age or decreased athleticism. If he looks as slow out there as I've heard, then this really isn't such a mystery. Flip can save his breath.
     
  13. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree Mo. I'm of the opinion that we should try to find a happy medium between gunning for a Championship and tanking the season to develop our young guys. I don't see it as black or white. I WANT GREY! I shouldn't have to give up all hope of a successful season because I want to see what our young guys can do. That doesn't mean that I expect to win the Championship, or even make it to the Finals every season, but I don't think that its unreasonable to expect to have a competitive team that also plays their young guys.

    Don't tell me it can't be done. There were plenty of opportunities last season to get our young guys some quality minutes. Sure it may have cost us a hand full of games. But we'd still have finished with the top record in our division at the very least.

    Its happened on this team before, Tayshaun and Memo are great recent examples of young guys that have come in and contributed to a championship team. But I'd like to see it happen from the start of the season, not just in the playoffs when the stage and the stakes are the biggest. Bring them along slowly, but for the love of God, BRING THEM ALONG!
     
  14. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    McDyess IMO fits better as a starter than bench player. Bench players are supposed to come in and give you a lift -- look to score, defend, whatever. Dice is more of a guy that's going to play a good floor game and look to fit in where he can. He really is a 6th starter, and we need more of a sixth man. I say either we start Dyess or give him starter's minutes this year. Next year, I hope we're going to have a freshly drafted youngster to play in the 4/5 rotation.
     
  15. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I certainly do not agree with all this talk about playing the yougsters AND losing games because of it. I have believed for years that you can play the players who are good enough to make your roster, at least a few minutes a game, without sacrificing more than a couple of games a year.

    And you have so much to gain by doing it. The players have a chance to validate what they are learning with playing time; they do not feel forgotten or short-changed; your first line players are stronger and by that, do not pick up nagging injuries; at the end of the season, they go into the post-season much more healthy and rested.

    After a player has been exposed to the team over a period of time, he is much more likely to fit into the game plan than if he played the season down in the D-League. Besides, he is getting the benefit of playing with those teammates and using what they teach him during the important minutes while the game is not already decided.

    Play them and Flip and Joe will see that there is not very much downside to it. Maybe none at all.
     
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Am I going to continue to be painted as the forum "malcontent" if everyone decides to lower their expectations?
     
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Right now there are 5 legit contenders, Dallas, Phx, San An, Det, Mia. Chicago and Clev will make some noise, but they are not contenders. Of the 5 I think we are the least likely to get the ring (although it is very possible). I am willing to settle on the 4th, 5th or even the 6th spot in the playoffs this season if it means developing, Amir, Max and Blalock. Sheed, Dyess, and Davis are too slow to get it done (by get it done I mean a ring). I personally feel that with enough time and hoop education, Amir and Max can take it to Haslem and Walker. Detroit getting a ring is going to be determined by us being able to get pass Miami. Seriously Amir and Max can really help us get a ring this season if they can raise their hoop IQ, because the skills are undeniable. Dallas is the perfect example, it was the play of Devin Harris that propelled that squad, a second year player that brought the quickness of youth to the table.
     
  18. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Me neither. If you aren't playing to win it all, then why have a team? We seem to have this notion that the best way to win as many games as possible, including in the playoffs, is to play a small number of guys all the time. Surely we've seen demonstrated over the past couple of years that perhaps this isn't the straight and true path to winning.

    You put guys into games to win both now and in the future, and if they screw up too much, you drop them and get some new guys. Same with the coach - he doesn't survive if he plays rookies and loses game that vets sitting on his bench would have won.

    I think the Pistons have demonstrated pretty clearly that you can't play six and expect to win championship after championship. No one in the history of the league has done that. But, I don't see the solution to that as being willing to accept a 500 team that plays young guys a substantial amount of the time.

    Once you start digging that hole, it can take a long time to climb back out of it. Just ask the Bulls who have taken what, seven years?, just to get back to 500.
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nope. As usual, you are our leader. Where you go, we follow.
     
  20. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Dice has a trade kicker in his contract (as does Chauncey).... a trade kicker is like a bonus paid if a player is traded.... this bonus causes an imbalance in salaries (the player he's traded for) so it becomes more difficult to trade to a team over the salary cap (teams under can absorb the extra $'s).
    The trade kicker can be set up as a % of the remaining contract (not to exceed 15% of remaining contract)... so as the years go by the imbalance gets less (he becomes easier to trade).
    Also with the new cba two players being traded can be within 25% of each others salary (it used to be 15%).
    The longer we wait the easier it is to trade him (next year easier than this year).... given the fact that next year is Dice's last year (he'll opt in at 6.8M) there will be teams interested in his expiring contract.
    So the short answer on Dice is we'll prolly need to wait til next year to deal him.
     

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