Discussion in 'January 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 19, 2009.
LMAO, WAVE!!! Hey thats all I could come back with.:nerd2:
A little perspective (and realism) never hurts.
Same old routine: who wants to play tonight?
Same old routine: who is preparing this team tonight?
Same old routine: No one is listening?
Same old routine: any opponent bigs that show up usually feel good leaving the games, especially after a victory. Ditto for 1-2 combo guards.
Scola: "I know I have long hair, but it never gets into my eyes. I usually don't get a chance to get it all sweaty, since I usually share my playing time with Carl when Yao plays. That Sheed guy, he sure gets mad alot."
Artest: "This is great place to play the game, and besides, I like coming in here to show the fans how many ways I can beat them. That Sheed guy, he sure gets mad alot."
Notes (to myself):
No assistant coach was heard yelling out, "2nd foul on Stuckey, time to pull him!"
Absolutely no passion or energy shown on defense. Scola was a man among boys... smart...move on Sheed when he planted Sheed's feet to the floor during a rebound?
Why did KB start? JMax is playing high energy over the last few games.
No playing time for Tay in the second quarter; through for the night.
AI plays point...nah, teams really don't like to use talented PGs.
Tay as forward point bringing the ball up settled all movement down.
Houston team: "it's fun playing zone against these guys."
People often confuse a descriptive element (small ball) without understanding the event that is triggered (aggressive movement ball). The loop is never closed. All free wheeling, with weak 3.4-5.
There is now a distinct pattern being shown: Freezing the guards out of shot attempts; who determines they get their shots today?
The dominate players (Sheed and Rip) are playing alone.
AI out almost entire 4th quarter. Last 6 minutes, with no play.
Last timeout play was a no play. Does anyone practice this stuff?
Speaking of practice: AI get your practice time in on those FT. He is not into any rhythm.
Self-anointed ones shoot the most: Sheed (15) + Rip (21)=36; Team total shots (78)
AI (34m) with 10 shots and quiet 17. Stuckey (31m) with 12 shots and quiet 14.
KB, Amir, Tay, Jmax, Dyess, Afflalo were not factors.
Very calm group of pistons. No one is mad. Those coaches are nice people. BillD would approve.
Distinct pattern being shown against AI from Sheed, Rip and Tay.
No going back now---will have to blow up. First move has to begin at trade deadline. A quality 3-4 (who can play at times in 5 slot) that will get playoff time; help with the transition signings-trades and ready to start for next year.
HQ...you're the only poster that can speak the turrible truth :( and make me laugh while I'm reading it
Great Podshow and Great post game analysis.
Guys, I wonder what he's trying to say?
That he wants to try coaching?
He's trying to say that he should be taking more shots, running the point more, and playing more minutes.
And what the heck, let's try it. Let him pick his teammates and let's what he can do.
Funny thing is i remember us doing it numerous times before and after BW even in the PO's.
I think that as a team ages the need for young fresh legs becomes crucial. It's not so much relying on one player as much as needing an energy boost in the line-up to elevate the energy of the unit as a whole, and cover as many mistakes as possible. That's not an indictment on the players we have as much as an acknowledging they can't do all the things they used to. Their veteran presence combined with youth is what is valuable and keeps a team competitive after the stars are not in their prime anymore. That's mainly how i look at Amir. He can run like a lunatic covering as many people as possible and getting back to his man. Now alone that i'm not sure if he would be as effective but with the experience in the SL (Sheed specifically) it works.
Max provides this as well to a degree.
I agree with you that we shouldn't be so dependant on that presence in the line-up, but it is what is. The way the team is presently constructed, the youth has to be maximized and counted on.
This was actually already mentioned in another article. Curry basically said something like if our defense is better, he can get more shots or something like that. When Curry talks i try to not listen too closely b/c it makes my head hurt. I know you were were being partly sarcastic. For some reason i thought of that article b/c it didn't make any sense.
This is great.
i'm at my best when i'm at my worst! -hqism
Yeah yeah just blame it on me ;)
What both Amir and JMAX do best at is pick and roll defense. Houston was killing us on pick and rolls to start the game since we had neither of these two in the game.
We have several centers / power forwards - but no, they are hardly all the same. Each has specific skills, abilities. Kwame Brown would have been a great choice to play to guard Ming. Only thing, Ming was not in the game. Curry messed up big time by starting Brown.
You know, if Amir sarts, the other team averages around 20 points in the first quarter. Yes, one guy can make a difference. A huge difference. Matter of fact, nobody over the past two seasons has made more of a defensive difference for us vs. Amir. Which is why he starts for us, and should have started this game.
Other than the 1st quarter blunders, we actually got the lead for the very 1st time midway thru the 3rd quarter if I remembered well. Somehow, when Stuck went to the bench after getting his 4th foul, Rip came in for him. That leaves AI and Rip at the backcourt. AI could have played PG like he did towards the end of 1st and some in the 2nd where we managed to clawed back from like 15 pts down to like 4 pts with AI and Rip at the backcourt. But NO.....MC has Tay to handle the point. And that my friends, caused us this game. Bear in mind during the comeback in the 1st half, Tay was on the bench with AA takin his minutes. If you wanna play Tay, let him play his natural position. This is because AI and Rip was clicking in this game.
This loss is definitely on MC.
He is always mouthing the F word. The wheels are about to come off this team. It is about to get ugly. Team does not respect Curry whatsoever.
Go Pistons. Go, you beautiful, deeply flawed, directionless, identity-less, confused, rapidly ungluing Pistons!! You are the best, even if you aren't.
I am going with that, professor. GO PISTONS!!
I has totally disgusted after the Dallas game, but am kind of hopeful after this one. Not too many teams can put that many three point shooters on the floor at once and when they were falling for Houston early, there were impossible to defend. Amir would have done a better job than Kwame, but it would have still been ugly. Still, a fun game to watch.
But, I thought this was a pretty hopeful offensive game. Battier and Artest anchor a pretty good defense and 105 from Detroit on 56% shooting is about as good as it's going to get. 55% from the foul line isn't going to get it done though. Come on AI.
Too many long rebounds was the ultimate story though. With a defense spread too far to try and stay with three point shooters and unable to get to any of them. I'm really hard pressed to believe the Houston only had ten offensive boards despite what the boxscore says.
I see that TaS has mentioned it a couple of times, but come on guys when the shot clock is off and you're down, taking a foul might be a good idea. They lost nine seconds what could have made for a decent three at the end.
Did you see Tay explaining the last play to Rip on the bench while Curry stood there looking lost?
Hasn't Tay's story always been about replacing Curry? ;)
I agree, it was a hopeful game. I just wish we had won.
Something isn't right (obviously) and I just can't put my finger on it. Have people diagnosed Stuckey? Should Rip and AI be starting? Is AI simply incapable of being anything but, AI the guy who needs the ball most of the time?
Is Curry actually hurting this team?
Can Rasheed be the singular difference, the rallying point for joy or derision?
Several large and good questions in here Roscoe. I think to address most of them we'd need to first clarify our goals: is it championship this year? long term good of the franchise? Or any number of other possible goals, like just righting that which you are sensing isn't right.
But the question I've bolded, well, I'm not sure: but last night Allen was 5-10 for 17 points, had 8 assists and 1 turn, 2 boards, and 1 steal. So perhaps it was an anomaly (sample size issues here, I know), but I'd say that last night at least, he seemed capable of putting up reasonably efficient and productive numbers without having the ball all the time. But maybe the question is can he average closer to his career average without having the ball most of the time (there the answer is probably no). But is that what we need him to do?
Other question about Rasheed. Rasheed is the only big we've got who has in the past given us any reason to expect the kind of numbers he put up last night. The rest are too limited at this point in their careers. And, come to think of it, Rasheed since he's been here has never given us a reason to expect those numbers consistently. I'd say less so now since he is aging.
I think maybe the reason you and others are having trouble putting their finger on what's not right is that what's not right has to do not with some individual player who we have any reason to expect could be doing something they are not on a nightly basis, and not with who is or isn't starting, but with the relations among the parts. And I don't just mean are they or aren't getting along (though perhaps that is part of the problem). I mean are the relations among the parts such that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Right now, the answer is pretty obviously (to me) no. And that's exposed the very real limits to the individual abilities of players that we've come to think of as All-Stars.
No doubt, a better coach might be able to coax more out of them as individuals and generate better relations among the parts, but I'm not sure any coach out there, past or present, could make this group a championship team in this one season that they've been together. But then, like I say, maybe that's not the goal really. No doubt a better coach could make it seem less obvious that something was not right.
Ultimately, none of our players -- as they are playing this season -- are top five in the league at their position. And neither is our coach. That's a whole lot of individual problems, all multiplied when you try to fit the pieces together. I don't really see how, if one accepts that, we could expect to be doing any better than we are.
So it is time for Dumars to be honest: instead of "making team better" slogan, admit that rebuilding phase has begun. It would take away a lot of unneccesary pressure from everyone: fans who still are expecting high level, coach who tries to win at price of wearing down several players and players who do try for winning something ridiculous.
AI would be pissed off but it is better to accept bitter truth than feed yourself with fake hopes.
Rebuilding is not incompetence, it is ineluctable.
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