Has Flip won a Championship at any level?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Superstarov, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. easybuckets

    easybuckets First Round Draft Pick

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    I think Ben was Flip's biggest problem. His little tantrums were a big distraction for the team and a problem for Flip. I think Flip will take more control this year. Look for big changes.
  2. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No argument, but there is a flip side. (Sorry.)

    You've given a championship caliber team and told to go win. It should be obvious that Ben Wallace was a big part of that team and a big part of why it won. Seems like it might be incumbent on you as the leader/coach of the team to figure out what makes the individual players tick and figure out how to use that.

    I don't believe for one second that Ben's tantrums (uncalled for yes, but...) could have been avoided by a competent manager of people.
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure that it's the other way around. Flip made Ben's job almost impossible. Positioning EVERYONE except Ben on the perimeter left him to fend for rebounds 3 on 1 during most possessions and constant and quick jumpshots never allowed the defense to get set on a regular basis. Ben AND the team's defense suffered as a direct result of Flips coaching style.

    There's no way anyone will convince me that having gone to 2 straight Finals with this group of guys, getting embarassed by CLE & MIA is now the fault of this same group of guys when the only thing changing was the coach.
  4. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Flip is soft. He will never "take control." Why would he be able to handle Ben's "tantrums" (which never existed)? He couldn't keep everyone from tossing up 3's, getting manhandled on the boards, and getting outscored 50-16 in the paint. He couldn't even keep Mo from checking in whenever he felt like it.

    He's only going to be able to handle soft players with sub par talent, which makes them the type of players that will never question his decisions (even if they are flawed).
  5. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    The Low,

    Good posts. Truth hurts sometimes.

    I have not been giving the players a free pass- anyone can check my posts. However, Flip failed to adjust to the poor shooting streak, he failed to make defensive adjustments, and he failed to gain the respect of the players. He failed.

    The players failed.

    They all failed.

    The Flip apologists are going to be very disappointed when there is no more Ben Wallace to blame.

    Notice this however- when post game interviews were conducted Ben Wallace was the first to admit that this season was a failure. Billups didn't do it. Flip sure didn't do it. Joe D didn't do it. All of them made excuses. Not Ben. That's why he made such an impact.

    By excuses I mean- Billups was tired, Flip said we only played bad in two games, and Joe D said now Flip knows we don't need to win all the games in regular season. Everybody looking at the bright side not feeling too bad. Ben said we failed, that's what we're looking at.

    That's why he butted heads with Flip. Ben wanted to win. Flip wanted to win, too, but his way doesn't work.
  6. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    Please nobody mistake me for a Flip apologist! The only think I'm willing to give him is that his attempt to not mess with success on defense led to a lack of control, and that he won't have that problem now with Ben gone. Flip doesn't come even close to deserving the vote of confidence Joe's given him by picking him over Ben.
  7. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm reminded of LB when he came to Detroit. You might say that he had the ability to coach but had choked every time it counted. (I'm ignoring his NCAA title for the time being) Or maybe he didn't have the guys who would buy into his system 100% and could play the roles he wanted them to that he could win a 'ship with until he came here. Maybe Flip 'just chokes' at the big games because he's not good enough of a coach. Maybe he needs the players who will buy into his system 100% and can fit the roles that he wants them to.

    Either way, if you were on a team that had just won one and 3/4 championships, and had a guy come in who didn't have the notches on his belt to impress AND tried to make you play differently than you did when you were winning, there's not a good chance you're going to buy into it one hundred % assuming you CAN play the roles that were being asked of you. I think the team hasn't showed that they CAN play Flip's roles perfectly because they haven't bought into his system 100% yet. And this season will show if the changes have happened.

    I think this season comes down to 3 things:
    1) Will the team trust Flip and buy into his system 100%?
    2) If so, CAN they play the way Flip has in mind?
    3) If 1 and 2 are true, is Flip's way really good enough and can he take them to the ship?

    Those 3 have equal importance but are listed in order of necessity.

    Have you folks read this far down? :P
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Have any of us won a championship at any level?

    I came in second place once. It felt really OK.
  9. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    I won an eigth grade basketball tournament and a bowling league title when I was in college in Ypsilanti.

    Champion beeyatch!
  10. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Don't discount the other factor too - the competition. I don't have any problem believing that the Heat team that beat the Pistons a couple of months ago would have had any problem laying waste to the Lakers in the finals a couple of years ago.

    But I do get your point.
  11. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Generally speaking, the coach's job is to put his players in the best position to succeed. Flip did not accomplish this.

    When the coach doesn't do this, one of two things are likely:

    1) The players will succeed in spite of the coach (which did not happen), therefore earning them a lot of credit for getting the job done.

    or

    2) The players will not succeed, which should come as no surprise because even players that play well, when using a faulty gameplan, can still come up short.

    The difference with LB was that he put together a very strong gameplan and won the title in year one and just fell short in year two. I attribute that to the players falling short. They deserved some blame for not getting the job done. This season was different. They were playing well most of the year with a faulty gameplan. So, when the gameplan was exposed, they still struggled (see CLE series game 2 - which was a result of succeeding in spite of the coaching).

    It seems to me that it would be less desirable to play all season with a faulty gameplan and simply have to rely on the players overcoming that PLUS the competition.
  12. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    Well, let's see, I got a hole in one on the 18th hole of a miniature golf course in Ludington, Michigan when I was nine years old. I still got the official card to prove it too. Does that count? :) :nod:

    The only championship we care about is the NBA championship and I don't see how Flip can possibly win one unless he shows us that he can make game-to-game and in-game adjustments. Any coach's perfectly executed system is not enough to win. I wish Flip would take some risks this season by responding to and interacting with the games that he is in. Setting his system on the players and then just watching what happens is not going to cut it for a championship.
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I once got 3rd place in a Spelling Bee, and there is no one who can beat me at NHL 95 on Sega Genesis.
  14. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    I beg to differ.

    Someone called me on that same bet once.

    I played him for $20. West VS East.

    After the 1st period I was up 11-0. So I told him double or nothing. I used Calgary and he used the West.

    I took his $40.

    Played him again using the worst team in the league vs the West, and took another $10 from him.

    Then I used Team Japan against the (him) East, just for bragging rights, and lost by 1 goal.

    Playing that game, one time I scored 28 goals in 10 minute periods, and my best friend told me I was making a mockery of the game, and refused to play with me.
  15. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    We won the Lutheran league state championship... got to play at Tiger stadium and collect our trophies between games of a Tigers double header (Lutheran day)... what a thrill getting the trophy from Norm Cash and shaking hands with Al Kaline and Jim Northrup with over 50,000 in attendance!
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not sure we are talking about the same game. NHL95 didn't have int'l teams. I'm not even sure it had All-star teams.

    Irregardless, I am the greatest player of that game since the dawn of man. This isn't boasting. It's the one video game I was truly great at (mind you I am really decent at NHL 94 and 96).
  17. Superstarov

    Superstarov First Round Draft Pick

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    Oh, sorry, I was thinking NHL 98... Playstation. That was when I took that guy's money.

    NHL 95 Sega... Give me Calgary all the way. And that was the game I scored 28 goals in one game on. Calgary was loaded that year. Fleury, Roberts, Newendyk, Al Macinnis, Vernon.

    I played many a season with my roomates, of that game.

    I was never any good at 94, and I didn't like how different 96 looked.
  18. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I'll take your lunch money at Mr. Do! or Gorf. In case you don't know those two, they were the ones at the corner store when I was a kid. I also was the neighborhood champ at the pinball game Taxi. You have to pick up famous cats like Dracula, Santa Claus, and Mikhael Gorbachov, and Pinbot. NO ONE could beat me!
  19. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I never played any of those Sega hockey games. However, there was one Pistons game chat this past season (must have been a pretty boring game*) where I made it very clear that none of y'all would have the slightest chance against me in Blades of Steel.

    *Come to think of it, just about every Pistons game chat goes off in all kinds of entertainingly random directions, regardless of how interesting the game itself is!
  20. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    That reminds me of a time in college when one housemate and I played some Sega soccer game (I don't remember what it was called) against another housemate and his brother. Neither of us had ever played it, and they were fairly experienced with it, so they allowed us to be Brazil, while they used a club team from...Malaysia. And they still kicked our butts!

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