Greg Monroe, the new Rodney Stuckey?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by KGREG, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Sheed was a 7-footer who could play SF.
    You don't have to have a 48" vertical to be a good athlete.
    ...especially when you're a 7 footer.

    Balance, hand/eye coordination, speed, strength and touch are all just as important to being a "good athlete" as being able to jump high.
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  2. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think it's because Rasheed sometimes half-assed it down the court. He never was in great shape, and so at times he looked unathletic. But the opposite is true...he got by on athleticism. The blocks, the turnaround jumper etc.

    Monroe, on the other hand just doesn't seem to have the athletic ability to jump or defend or come up with a consistent mid-range game. He is in top shape but he looks like he is close to hitting his ceiling at this point. He's a low ceiling guy.
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  3. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    When it comes to defending, the problem has less to do with Greg's abilities than his overall lack of interest in even pretending to defend.
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  4. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    So, he's lazy?
  5. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    It doesnt have the same effect when you scream " and1" when your man beats you.
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  6. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is a fair point. My memory of Sheed playing was in his later years when, as basketbillis mentioned, he was never in great shape and he made his living off of smarter play. This video kind of changed my mind about what he was able to do when he was younger: You win this round.

    Early Sheed got by on athleticism. Blake Griffin gets by on athleticism. Shaq and Dwight Howard got by on athleticism. They had natural gifts that put them above their peers and they didn't have to have the pure shooting and rebounding skills that other players have to have to be successful in the league. The Sheed I remembered is more in a category of Tim Duncan and Steve Nash - guys that had talents and skills rather than (or in addition to) their physical gifts. Now, there was a certain grace to Sheed that Monroe appears to lack, and that may be where our little point of contention is, but grace is not the only element of athleticism either... in other words, who's a better athlete - Magnus von Magnus or Mikhail Baryshnikov?

    And I don't recall Sheed ever playing SF. I did a Google search and while there is a mention of him doing it briefly with the Blazers back in 2001, it was short lived and did not appear to be particularly effective.

    In fact, not to totally switch gears about the athleticism discussion (which my uninformed ass clearly lost), but Monroe is arguably already better than Sheed. Sheed had four years where he averaged more pp36 than Monroe has averaged over these past 2 (Monroe is averaging 17.4 pp36 this year; Sheed topped that in 97 and 00-03). Monroe also has a higher career TS%, EFG%, ORB%, DRB%, (obviously a higher total RB%), Ast% and Stl%. Sheed averaged about .7 of a block more and .7 TOs less per 36, which isn't really enough to make a difference. Where Sheed stood out in comparison was in three point shooting, but his was actually only average and Monroe has only ever shot 2. Now, you can talk about intangible things like energy and defensive positioning, but if you go there you also have to bring technical fouls and his court malaise into the discussion, too.

    For reference, here are their first three years:

    Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com
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  7. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Sheed could have been the best PF in his era, he was better than Duncan, Webber, KG and Dirk; but he lacked the intangibles like focus, discipline and determination. Put KG's work ethic and fire inside of Sheed and I can only imagine. Sheed NEVER wanted to be anything more than a very good role player even though he had the talent and athleticism to be a perennial MVP. CHeck out a young Sheed at Carolina, Greg could never do this at Georgetown.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rasheed could jump pretty high also. He's probably close to Monroe's age in these.


  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    So question(s)........does Joe offer Greg an extension this summer? And if yes, for how much? 5 years $50M, 5 years $65M? If Greg wants MORE than $10M/yr, does Joe let him walk?
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sorry if I'm posting dup videos/piling on etc. I get just a swath of white when I log in from work.
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  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would trade him even if he wanted the vets minimum. I think you can get a lot more for him then you can from him.
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    As much as it pains me, I think that sums up my sentiments for him (and Brandon Knight) perfectly.
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  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The other side of this is, Greg is only 22. Big men don't really hit their prime until they are 26~29.

    I don't think athleticism is going to emerge over night, but he could be a very solid contributor if he works on his J and gets in the weight room. The Pistons are one of the least "cut" teams in the league. Not sure if that is an Arnie thing or what, but Ben was all about hitting the weights so he could bang inside.
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Actually, when it comes to the real "studs" they tend to begin their ascension in their 3rd year, that's why I'm so concerned. The jump in Greg's game from his first game to his last game in his rookie season was off the charts. The jump in Greg's game from his rookie season to his 2nd season was off the charts too. There has been no jump from last year into this year......and if he's essentially plateaued......well, what do you do? When Rodney hit his plateau we continued to believe he would get better and Joe extended the guy and he never got better. I guess I'm just tired of WAITING for guys to get better, I prefer to WATCH them get better like we're doing with Andre Drummond and what we were doing with Greg in his first 2 seasons.
  15. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I have to say I'm a little concerned about his progression this season too, but am still optimistic about his prospects. We are at risk of seeing an even more frustrating season from him next too, when he moves to PF.

    At just incremental progress from where he is now, he will still be a decent PF next to Drum. And he has the ability to be more than that.

    I already think he is more valuable than Stuckey though.

    And, we can talk trades etc all we want but the truth of the matter it is pretty clear we are building around Drum, Monroe and BK. Adding to that, it will cost more to replace these guys and we have to fit another baller FA into a more difficult salary cap environment.

    Simply put, we are all in with these guys.
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  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like seeing Moose & Drummond together on the court. I like it a lot.
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I am not anti-Monroe when I say I'd trade him. I'm just not in love with him as a player.

    I think they could probably talk Sacto into him for Cousins with his lack of baggage if they needed a C. That is an upgrade to me.
  18. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Greg is averaging 17 and 10 per 36, while shooting 48.6% from the floor. He's expanding his shooting range. He's a great citizen. He can "Go to work", in the post against anybody his size or smaller. I would want a big time player for him.
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  19. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

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    I take Monroe over Cousins every day. Cousins is not a championship level player
  20. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    I see Monroe as a viable piece to our puzzle. Not the centerpiece, but a contributor.
    I want more guys like that...and less guys like Stuckey.
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