Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jun 24, 2010.
Thanks for the insight, Webz.
Thanks. I don't pretend to be a BB expert - I just play one on this board. The insights are appreciated.
I suppose it's possible this is just a homer talking, but I'm glad we got him instead of Cousins, and not just because Monroe figures to be a great team guy and Cousins could be the next J.R. Rider. I think a team oriented guy who's very skilled like he is will help our offense be much more of a well oiled machine than a more black-hole low post stud like Cousins would.
Cousins is more likely to be double teamed all the time, as he might become the best low post center in the game, and because Monroe is such a great passer -- (it's a very bad idea to double team super passers). But Monroe's passing ability will also lead to him getting more room to operate, and he's so skilled that I can see him being a great low post and elbow scoring threat in his own right.
And you just can't ignore the possibility (probability???) that Cousins is a ticking time bomb on the court.
I don't see Monroe as the type of player who will force double teams via the post, he's not that type of player. What GM will do is allow the other guys on the court to, play their game. Stuckey, Gordon, CV all suffer from the lack spacing because we have guys like Ben Wallace and Kwame Brown on the floor. GM won't make the players around him better but he'll help them reach their level. I still believe that a GM/ALJeff - hi/lo post combo would be awesome, they'll learn to play defense.
Amazing what one little trade could do for this club.
But for the life of me I can not figure out the price tag on Jefferson, I can't figure out what they're trying to do.
It's well known that the Wolves have been shopping him hard, but sounds like they either have a unreasonable value placed on him or are happy to wait for the perfect trade.
Sounds like typical Kahn stupid-thinking to me.
Or typical Joe Dumars........I'd give anything to find out what offers have came in for Rip and/or Tay that Joe has turned down.
I hear ya, bro. I'd LOVE to know that too. We've only heard some of the rumored deals (though where they is smoke there is usually fire).
Been a while for me getting on the board as I moved back from the UK to Australia (and there wasn't much to comment on last season), but just wanted to add my two cents and say I'm pretty happy with Monroe.
Seems a team player who can help the wealth of scorers on the perimeter get theirs - and god knows from watching bits of last season, his passing will go a long way to helping some better ball movement on offence. Don't know why everyone is getting their backs up and talking him down before we've seen what he can do either. Wonder how many people though JJ was a dud pick last draft?
As much as I don't like saying it either, the sooner we can move Hamilton the better. I think he was a negative impact on the team last season, we could get a decent front court piece and move forward with a younger team - possibly even moving Stuckey to the 2 like is so often suggested.
Welcome back, del!
Many forumites believed in Monroe right from the start. Good call!!
I don't think that I even made a post here, but I remember doing a lot of reading.
I'm just not good at evaluating talent from college BB to the pros.........
Here's what I said about Monroe during his first summer league-
"Greg Monroe- I have a condo in Georgetown and have spent most of the last two years living there. I've watched my fair share of G-Town games and I think I know his game pretty well. He's a deceptively athletic player with absolutely no ups. He's a one legged jumper. I'm not sure if he's got no ups because he is a one legged jumper, or if he's a one legged jumper because he has no ups. Probably the latter.
His strength offensively right now is the high post, where his passing skills and handle can come into play. He can get past a lot of bigs when he puts the ball on the floor. His low-post game is somewhat underdeveloped because of the system that he ran at G-town, but he has has a knack for playing there and seems to enjoy it. Look for his low-post game to steadily improve for a couple of reasons. One, he'll get stronger. He already has a strength advantage against most fours, which will only get more pronounced as he moves from the low 250s into the low 260s. At 260 or so, he should be able to hold his position down there against all but biggest NBA centers. The big guys he can take out to the perimeter or high-post. Two, his lack of explosiveness will require his continued development of his footwork. He's not going to jump over somebody and dunk from the low block. He's going to need to get position with his feet and butt. You can see that he knows this. He'll never be a low-post wizard, but he should become a solid option there. His passing skills have been widely discussed.
Defensively, he's very sound and should get better. He matches up very well with NBA fours, and should be fine against most NBA centers. The Dwight Howards, Kendrick Perkinses, and Andrew Bynums of the world will beat him up, but he can hang with most of them. He's a solid positional rebounder and has active hands. He'll never be a shot blocker or big time offensive rebounder due to his inability to play above the rim, but he should get some steals, tips, and the occasional block.
He's a very underrated transition player. He's an outstanding outlet passer and he can really run the floor.
I've compared Greg Monroe to Memhet Okur (Monroe is stronger, faster, and a better passer, less range), and have used the phrase "A bigger Chris Webber with a bum knee." I see Monroe as a possible 17-18 ppg 8-9 rpg 4-5 apg guy. A capable starter at either big spot on a championship team. He'll need to be paired with a shot blocker/offensive rebounder."
I thought he might become a 18 point/ 9 rebound guy. We'll see if I underrated him. Outstanding pick.
Rascoe was very high on Monroe.
LaValgren didn't seem to be very enthusiastic about the Monroe pick.
I predicted that JD would draft this guy before the draft.
I also figured he'd only be marginal.........
I agree with LaValgren. Dumars should have picked Cousins despite having already been selected by the Kings. I HATE YOU JD!!!
I saw some minor discussion on ESPN today about whether Monroe should be considered as a reserve on the all-star team. While it won't happen, that is pretty amazing that he is even on the border of being deserving of that.
Here are some stats to think about and where he ranks on our team this year:
12 games in a row with double digit scoring and 23 out of 26 games this year. His single digit outputs were 4, 8, and 9 I believe.
18 games in a row with 7 or more rebounds and 25 out of 26!
13 double doubles (50% of the time)
He basically averages a double double with 16.3 points, 9.9 rebs, 2.5 assists, 1.5 steals, and 0.5 blocks per game.
18 games in a row with at least 1 steal (and 33 steals in those 18 games- almost 2 per game).
8 games with 4 or more assists.
Monroe leads the Pistons in steals by a mile with 38 and with about twice as many per game as Gordon, Knight, Stuckey, or Ben Wallace.
Leads the Pistons in minutes, points per game, rebounds per game, steals per game, FG%, and he's our top assisting big man (but behind all the guards).
2nd on the team in FTA and FTA per game (behind Stuckey only)... and shooting 80%+!
1st on the Pistons in win shares and win shares per minute
1st in PER (Stuckey is 2nd and is about half of Monroe)
1st on the team in offensive rating
2nd on the team in defensive rating (barely behind Ben Wallace)
#2 on the team in usage- which means that we force the ball through him a lot and he creates his own (probably through off rebs).
2nd youngest player on the team- 2 years younger than Daye.
The only negatives:
11 assists and 21 turnovers in his last 5 games.
Doesn't block many shots (Wallace, Dayes, Maxiell, Jerebko, and Macklin all block at a higher rate). Mitigating that is that he steals the ball WAY more than an NBA center should steal the ball... and he doesn't get into foul trouble.
Let's compare to Tim Duncan (I'm adjusting Duncan's career 35 min per game average down to Monroe's 33 min average:
Just to refresh, here is Monroe-
16.3 points, 9.9 rebs, 2.5 assists, 1.5 steals, and 0.5 blocks/ .518 FG%
Here is Duncan (career- adj to 33 min per game to match)
18.9 points, 10.5 rebs, 2.9 assists, 0.6 steals, and 2.0 blocks/ .507 FG%
-2.6 points, -0.6 rebs, -0.4 assists, +0.9 steals, and -1.5 blocks/ +.011 FG%
Considering that Duncan was passing to players on Championship teams and played at a faster pace, I think this makes Monroe look really strong. Personally, I'd rather have a shot blocker than a guy who makes it up in steals, but at least he is making it up in some way. Also, I fully expect Monroe's assist numbers to climb for the next 5 seasons until he is considered the best passing big man in the league.
Duncan lite is not that far off.
And think about this- who would you rather have, Monroe or Amare Staudemire? Amare will probably make the all-star team and here is what he is averaging this year:
18.2 points, 8.1 rebs, 1.5 assists, 1.1 steals, and 0.8 blocks with .447 shooting.
Monroe gets him in rebs, assists, steals, and shooting percentage while he's close in the other 2 categories. Amare is losing stats to Chandler no doubt, but he has no excuse for the poor shooting. Bigs who play poor D and shoot a low percentage are a recipe for underachieving.
Here are a couple more questions (I haven't researched):
When was the last time that the leading scorer on the Pistons was the center?
When was the last time a center led a team in points, rebounds, and steals?
Are there any players in the NBA today that average higher than Monroe in all 5 major stats? (steals is obviously the one that makes it possible that the answer is no). LeBron is short on rebounds.
Good stuff, TaShawn.
In 1978, Bob Lanier led the Pistons by scoring 24.5 points per game. Eric Money was next at 18.6 ppg.
I know Hakeem the Dream was good at getting steals. I'm not sure if this is the answer, but in 1995, Olajuwon led the Rockets with 27.8 points, 10.8 rebounds, and 1.8 steals per game.
Just had time to research a bit-
There are 37 players in the NBA who average more points per game than Monroe (sadly, none are on the Pistons).
There are 5 players in the NBA who average at least as many points and rebounds per game as Monroe (Love, Griffin, D. Howard, D. Lee, and Bynum).
There is 1 player in the NBA who averages at least as many points, rebounds, and assists as Monroe (Blake Griffin).
There is 1 player in the NBA who averages at least as many points, rebounds, assists, and blocks as Monroe (Blake Griffin).
There are 0 players who average as many points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks as Monroe.
There are only 3 players in the NBA who make more baskets "at the rim" per game than Monroe:
In looking at adjusted PER (takes actual stats instead of estimated and adds in charge taking, etc), here are how the players rank in the NBA:
C. Paul (W)
D. Rose (E)
K. Love (W)
D. Howard (E)
K. Irving (E)
P. Millsap (W)
D. Wade (E)
S. Curry (W)
GREG MONROE (E)
If you had to do it on stats alone, this is a pretty good one to use. If you used it, it would say that Greg Monroe could arguably be the starting power forward in the East for the all-star game. He's 6th in the East in adj PER and there is overlap in the guard department.
SG: Irving/ Wade
I can't spin it any further...
Separate names with a comma.