Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Jun 24, 2010.
Rodney Stuckey first stepped onto the path to superstardom at this camp following the 2008 season.
You actually might have stumbled onto something.... Stuck was on the path to being a great player, outplayed alot of other young players that have now passed him by.... it was being invited to this camp that ruined him.... It was all an evil plot by Stern to keep the Pistons from being good.
c'mon, there are also guys like Klay Thompson or Kahwi Leonard, i.e. rookies that had average seasons. I really don't get the Monroe snub
Monroe asked to be excused when he found out the luggage restrictions for Pistons players.
I was thinking a little more about the Monroe vs Duncan comparisons and looked up their stats. While they are similar in some ways, the think that what really stood out to me in looking at Duncan's career is his amazing consistency on a per minute basis year in and year out. If you looked at his per 36 after his rookie year, you basically were looking at what he was going to be for the next 16 years. And he's still doing it with very little drop off at all. I'm hoping that Monroe has more room for improvement.
Duncan (15 complete seasons before this one- ranges on a 36 min basis)
Pts: 19.2-22.6 (Monroe is only at 17.8 this year... so lower than any season Duncan has ever had)
PER: 21.9-27.1 (Monroe is at 20.3 this year)
What a foundation for a team, especially considering his amazing defensive talents that don't show up in the box score.
The big differences between Monroe and TD in Monroe's favor are clearly the assists and the steals. The deficiency is mainly shot blocking/ defense.
I like Monroe's tude a little better. He seems meaner by a hair.
Duncan also played for a great coach, and on great teams. That is going to help.
Monroe (20 years, 2 months) did start his career a little earlier than Duncan (21 years, 4 months). Both of them were pretty much thrust into starting roles. Duncan has started 1120 of his career 1122 games.
Duncan got to start next to a hall of fame center still in his prime, Monroe gets to start next to Max.......
Spurs were a solid playoff team that got lottery talent because Robinson missed a season.... what a lucky injury for the Spurs.
Are you saying that JMax isn't on the same level as David Robinson?
I'm clearly not expected Monroe to ever rise to Duncan's level, but I just thought it was interesting that Duncan showed very little improvement throughout his career. I wasn't expecting that when I looked.
Tim Duncan NBA & ABA Stats | Basketball-Reference.com
His rookie year was one of his better seasons with his career best FG%. After that, he had some slightly higher scoring years, but always at the detriment of his FG% (where the more they used him the less efficient he got).
He was around 40 mpg until age 26.
Then he was at 34 mpg until age 32.
Then it was cut to about 30 mpg after.
But on a per minute basis, he was always the same player. So, I guess that plays into the smart coach comment. Pop has found a way to keep Duncan at an all-star level while on the court for 16 straight seasons by gradually ramping his minutes down with age. Amazingly, no real damaging injuries to Duncan either as he pretty much played all throughout each season (50 games played in '99 was due to the shortened season).
Monroe is averaging under 30 mpg for his career so far. Maybe time to pump Monroe up to closer to 40 mpg? Duncan was doing it at a time when bball was more physical.
If Monroe can become 70-75% the player Duncan is, he would've exceeded all expectations. He's headed that way. Like Duncan, his game doesn't rely on strength & athleticism, so he's likely to have a long and productive career.
Duncan's defensive prowess is light years ahead of Monroe's though.
Also, give the guy some credit. He has 4 rings. The first one, yeah he had Admiral next to him. The other 3, he was THE MAN. He is arguably one of the best PF to ever play the game.
I have watched nearly all of Monroe's games, so I don't know why I am shocked that he is below 30MPG, but I am.
He is clearly our best player and surely we should play him at least 35?!? Would result in more Drummond/Monroe and less JJ(PF) too.
Especially since he rarely gets in foul trouble and we still run a slow paced offense. Limiting his minutes to keep him from being an all-star maybe? Hmmm.
This has been a long accumulation of cerebral understandings. Tay got it a long time ago. The smaller the luggage, the greater your power influence in the player's tiny world of
media's bailiwick. On the court, it would be the covering stockings. Off the court, the jangles around one's neck. In the airport, I have heard that any luggage accommodation is now referenced in exposing your cell phone's Facebook page containing a single sentence: We all had that tiny dangerous friend.
Max is stealing rebounds from Monroe.
Not receiving the playing time he deserves (at least 35 mpg)
...and not playing next to a big man that provides him with the best chance to succeed (Drummond)
THESE are the kind of things that agents tend to bring up to their players when contract negotiation time comes.
"Why be loyal to these guys when they've done nothing but hold you back?"
Got to hand it to Greg Monroe, after a rough start to this 2012-13 season he's really began to take off. As of right now he's averaging 17 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.7 apg and 1.7 stls. He's out performing everyone (in terms of statistics) who was drafted ahead of him.....including my guy, Demarcus Cousins. Now if he was just a better defender, he's almost as bad as Chuckster.
I don't see how he is a bad defender averaging 1.7 steals and 0.9 blocks.
First of all, we all agree that there is more in defense that the stats don't show. But the stats do show something.
Chandler, for example, averages 0.7 steals and 0.7 blocks and a lot of people here will say that he is a better defender than Monroe. I'm not saying that Chandler isn't a better defender. But I'm putting it in doubt.
I think Monroe is a average defender. Is that enough for us, a team that is so known for his defense and with a history of tough players defending the rim? ... Well, no.
But we can be looking at a new formula here if Drummond rise up to be the top defender we are expecting.
D Rating is a decent measure. It is expressed in terms of how many points the team allows in 100 possessions with that player on the court- roughly.
Drummond is #1 on the team at 100.
Monroe is #2 at 102.
Singler is #13 at 111
Stuckey is #14 at 113
Drummond is #2 at 111 (+11)
Monroe is #5 at 102 (break even)
Singler is #1 at 122 (+11)
Stuckey is #14 at 96 (-17)
So, by this measure, Drummond and Monroe are our 2 best defensive players. Singler is bad, but makes up for it with his efficient offense. Stuckey is just struggling everywhere.
Keep in mind that one of the most important parts to getting a defensive stop is snagging the rebound. Monroe and Drummond do that pretty well.
It is surprising when players who don't seem like good offensive players show a high O Rating like Drummond is. They can contribute in indirect ways like creating transition opps (following blocks or steals... or just bad misses), they can set good screens, they can create spacing by being a threat, etc. Drummond does many of these things and he shoots at a crazy high percentage, which makes him much more valuable on offense than a guy who takes too many mediocre shots and wastes possessions.
The stats can be misleading. Watching him play, Monroe is serviceable to good in certain areas and horrible in others. He rebounds well, which is always good. So you can count on him for snatching the rebound on missed shots. He's also ok when defending one-on-one, evidenced by all the poke-steals he gets. But he's absolutely terrible when it comes to protecting the rim against penetrating guards. I mean Tay-guarding-LeBron-in-conference-finals level terrible. In that respect, he makes CV look like a DPOY candidate. We get slaughtered with dribble penetration when he plays center. This is why a guy like Tyson Chandler is a better defensive center than Monroe. That probably is the only glaring weakness in Monroe's game. When he sees a guard driving to the lane like a battering ram, he just gets out of the way. Maybe it's a Pavlovian reflex due to going against Stuckey in practices.
This is why we do so well when we pair him up with Drummond. You get Monroe's length and quick hands bothering mid-range shooters and behind him you have Drummond itching to swat away shots. Maybe not as good as Wallacex2, but this is the best frontcourt we've had since those days.
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