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ECF Game 6 Celtics/Pistons Fri. May 30th, 8:30 PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by max, May 29, 2008.

  1. max

    max All-Star

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    True, especially Amir - he should have played more. But they did play enough and Afflalo even started a few games for us. Versus Hunter who hardly played at all and Theo who was added late and did not play enough. Maxiel was playing great and was pretty much taken out of the rotation for the final 2 games.

    I thought that Flip sort of over matched up with the Celtics that took away from Pistons basketball and what got us there in the 1st place.
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sheed shot 26 3-pointers in the ECF. In 4 out of 6 of the games, he made 0 of them.

    In round 1, he shot 29 3-pointers in 6 games. In round 2, he shot 20 in 5 games. So, a total of 75 3-point attempts in 3 rounds of playoff action. Our best 3-point shooter, Chauncey Billups, attempted 11 fewer. Why would a team have a career 34% shooting center/forward take so many 3's when we're getting out rebounded?

    Sheed committed 28 fouls against the Celts and was in foul trouble in each of the last 4 games, fouling out once.

    He got to the FT line ONCE in the last 4 games of the year!


    Where is your big man when you need him? Late for shoot around, no-show for the actual game. I'm so frustrated. At this point, I'm almost ready to let Flip off the hook for the failure.


    How come our 2 injured players were our best players?
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

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    I think he was out of control, doing whatever he wanted as usual.
     
  4. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Flip is a better coach now than 2 years ago. But he still is not the kind of coach that can sense the flow of the game, make quick adjustments and go with the flow when appropriate.

    I just don't see how AA or Amir would have turned the tables on the Celtics. Do I wish they played some? Yes. But the key to our loss is plain old age. No loose balls, giving up offensive boards, etc., most of that came from slowness due to age. These same players were all over the court in 2004. Stuckey played but he wasn't integrated in the starting unit so his impact was not overpowering.

    What if we had a young big like Hortford or Smith to throw into the mix. Or a young Ben Wallace. The story would be different.
     
  5. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm a little confused. You say you don't see how the young guys could have turned the tables on the Celtics, but you say that the key reason we lost is age. Wouldn't that mean that the young guys could have made the difference?

    I'm not trying to argue whether it's true or not that they should have played, I'm just analyzing your statement.
     
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Great Post. Lets assume the best case scenario for Flip (he did not do anything wrong)...but what did he do better than LB and Rick Carlisle?

    It's a coach's job to help the team win. People should not praise Flip for not making a mistake.
     
  7. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I couldn't agree any more with your entire post!

    I agree with you that Flip is better now than he was 2 years ago, but is still not good enough.

    I disagree with you that age was the factor.

    I think that Flip still made plenty of mistakes, but that he made less of them in the playoffs than he did in the regular season, so it seemed like he did a better job of coaching than he really did.
     
  8. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    What I mean about the age is often we would make a stop but it took a lot of effort and then we were not quick enough to get the loose ball. Some of the rebounds were of that variety. Or, we would tip the ball away but rarely actually recover it. Who is fast enough to dive on balls in our starting 5? Who is fast enough to make a key rotation?

    Look at it from this angle. Who is playing this late in the playoffs with the center and power forward at age 33? Or, who has essentially no players in the starting line up under 30? (Tay is 29).

    When we took the Lakers, the Wallaces were 28, Billips 26, Rip 25 and Tay 24. Wow! What a difference!

    Yes, we have youth. Stuckey is the guy but has played 1/2 a year and is not really integrated with the starters. So not a big impact. Maxiel has trouble boarding and another high pick. Amir and Afflalo are high picks who have yet to show they can really produce at a finals level and at any rate, are not integrated into the lineup/rotation.

    I think we finally have to break up our starters. I hate to say it. We will win a bunch of games as is. But I can't project this team into the NBA finals a year older still.
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So you think the problem is that our starters are old, and even with a young bench, we can't overcome that problem? That's probably a valid argument.
     
  10. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Which is what most of us were begging for all year.
     
  11. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    :tsk:

    Please bring in a defensive coach.
     
  12. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    CoyneJeremey:

    Lets say we have a new coach and he plays AA and everyone big minutes.

    I see 3 problems.

    1) A good problem. How do you get Stuckey to be a key in the offense with Rip and Billips. Stuckey needs major minutes. The offense needs to let him be a focal point like a Wade.

    2) Our other bench guys are picks late in the draft. Yes, everyone loves them. They each have skills but I am not overly-optomistic that they are the answer to the problems of our starting 5. For example, lets say Amir does play well and score some, block some shots. But he is still not the big body (banger) we need down low. He does have speed to overcome one of our problems but it is tricky in terms of finding the right mix of our stars and youth.

    3)To integrate youth means to put one or two of the starting 5 coming off the bench or it means trading an asset (one or two of our starters for other key guys (stars) who might make a better mix). That is up to Joe.

    I don't think the free agent market is the key. A trade may be the key. We would win a lot of games standing pat. That is the irony of the situation. We are really good but not good enough.
     
  13. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    The key of trade season is Sheed. It will only made to a team trying to get over the hump and make the 2nd round or conference finals at least. In that scenario, I only see these teams that could benefit from dealing with Sheed:

    1. Orlando
    2. Phoenix
    3. Charlotte(due to LB)
    4. Cavaliers (and yes I'd take Ben back)
    5. Dallas (Cuban could handle Sheed - they're made for each other)
    6. New Orleans
    7. San Antonio
    8. Chicago
    9. Atlanta
    10. Denver
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree with all of that. He'd actually be a great fit for Orlando and quite a complement to Howard. They have so many problems with the rest of their team, that I don't see how they could function after giving up Turk or other valuable players though.
     
  15. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i know it is way late but, better late than never for a hogcap right?

    my buddy and i got to the palace relatively early, but it was a bit weird...there wasn't anything going on in front of the palace and nothing much to get people excited. i remember a couple years ago people got blinking lights, shirts, workman's outfits, bobbleheads...nothing really this year. i didn't know sheed was late to shoot-around, but it fits with what happened at the start of the game. normally sheed does his dance in the circle to get his teammates fired up - he didn't. then before the start of every playoff game (ever since i've been there), he points once to each section of the crowd to get them riled up, and then waves his arm in a circle and the Palace goes nuts. he didn't do it. and the crowd never really got into it from there...it was really awkward, and everyone seemed pretty confused by it. that, his demeanor, and his play throughout the game (wow nice botched bunny toward the end) made it feel like he abandoned the Pistons. for that game alone, he should not be brought back for the last year of his contract. he played so well the 1st two rounds and became cliff robinson in the ECF. there is just no way he can be here next year.

    the Game 6 crowd didn't hold a handle to the Game 4 crowd. i'm not sure just how much sheed had to do with that...but whereas last time i would yell and people would yell with me, it was more like i would yell and people would turn around and give me funny looks. like when tayshaun made a terrible turnover and they showed the replay, i yelled 'YOU IDIOT' and people looked at me weird.

    anyway, some things i just didn't understand about the game. like when we had chauncey, lindsey, and stuckey all in the game at once...and lindsey was the guy handling the ball! da heck?

    tayshaun sucked too...i remember a play in Game 3 or Game 4 where a rebound bounced near him and he barely saw it and didn't even make a play for it. he just didn't give it his all, and it's very disconcerting that he got so much rest in the regular season and can't play well for 40-mins a night (with a ton of long TV timeouts) for 5-10 games.

    a couple other things happened that warrant mentioning. while the game was still close, with about 3 or 4 minutes left bill davidson left the arena. our friends sit in the same section where joe dumars's suite is behind them, and they said he also left with about 5 or 6 minutes to go. and even the crowd seemed to check out of it (and some fans even leaving early) before it was actually over. it's like everyone sensed the inevitable and bailed...i dunno.

    as the game was slipping away and it ended, i felt weird - Game 5 against Cleveland last year I was emotionally drained, hurt, and p1ssed to the point that my buddy and i were shown on TNT sulking in our seats. this year i didn't even feel that sad, like i was prepared for the collapse or that i just didn't care as much about a team that didn't seem to have the hunger or desire to give it their all every night like the championship team in 2004 did. and it seemed like the rest of the fans felt the exact same way, because when the game ended there weren't any boos, there weren't any cheers, and it wasn't even dead quiet like hearts were ripped out. the fans became what the core 4 has become - apathetic, familiar, and content with their 1 championship.

    the crowd was also weird in that a lot more people than usual got really, really drunk. i saw a woman having to be helped down the stairs. i saw 2 fans almost fight with each other. i saw a group of 4 guys consume 4-5 beers, one guy so wasted that during the game he felt compelled to stand up for 3-4 minutes and block everyone's view, despite people screaming at him to sit down. he was completely oblivious and just took his time trying to count his change and pay for his beer. as my buddy and i were leaving, a couple girls high-fived us and said 'at least the wings won tonight' even though they didn't have a game. to top it all off, it was pouring outside which kept a lot of fans in the lobby just waiting to leave. my buddy's entire face (head, hair, and all) was painted in half red and half blue, and he got it smeared and running all over when we finally decided to say 'screw it' to the rain and walk to the car.

    it was the perfect way to end a perfectly disappointing season - it sucked, but all you could do was shrug your shoulders, sigh, and head on home empty handed.
     
  16. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thanks for the last hog blog, wart.

    Interesting comments about both JD and BD leaving when the outcome of the game was still in balance?? Wonder if they saw the handwriting on the wall and they met in the locker room to discuss a few issues before the team came in. Not good if management and the team giving up before it's time...
     
  17. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    New Orleans would be great for sheed; sandwiched between chandler and west. sheed would have a defensive player next to him as well as an offensive player next to him and chris paul as point guard.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Thanks for the writeup Warthog. I can almost picture what it was like there.
     
  19. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thanks for the recap, Hog. Very bizarre night in a lot more ways than I realized. Can you please confirm what you are saying here: Both Biil D AND Joe left with 5 minutes to goe? Were they sitting together? That is very odd.
     
  20. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    i can't confirm about joe because i wasn't in the section to see him leave (my regular season seats are that section, but playoffs we sit upper level to save some $). but the older couple we talk to after every game said he left...if that means he just went inside his suite to watch the rest, i'm not sure.

    it's less surprising with bill davidson because he's literally only been to the palace for like 3 games this year...he doesn't look very healthy and has to have someone transport him around in a wheelchair...he always leaves early.

    i wouldn't read too much into either, but you never know.
     

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