ECF Game 6 Celtics/Pistons Fri. May 30th, 8:30 PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by max, May 29, 2008.

  1. whatever_gong82

    whatever_gong82 First Round Draft Pick

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    Flip needs to go ASAP!!

    And take Rasheed with you!!

    What a pathetic performance in the 4th Quarter last night by Rasheed and Tayshaun last night.
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    'Sheed, KG keep hands to selves PLAYOFF TICKER | Freep.com | Detroit Free Press


    Wonder what was wrong ??


    Ouch.
     
  3. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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  4. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Flip does need to go for not being a good in game coach and lack of better bench integration. But just him leaving will not solve the Pistons lack of a low post player and lack of rebounds issue. Relying on the starting five is not a huge mistake as some make it out to be. The best players have to play at the biggest times and make the plays. Amir and AA may have helped a bit but their lack of PT did not lose this series. The starting five never showed up consistently as a single unit. You will not win hard fought games when only half of your starting unit shows up on any given night. Dice is right, sick of the excuses from the players.
     
  5. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    There are some really excellent posts here regarding what went wrong in this series, and what should be done to rectify our weaknesses. Now that the series is over, the analyses are more sober and calmer then some of what was posted after bad games in this round and earlier rounds. But for that reason, the analyses are that much more convincing.

    Flip is certainly part of the problem, but of course he is not the entire problem. Game 5 was the killer. A few different substitutions or smart timeouts might have changed the outcome of that game. And if we win game 5, that would have put us in the driver's seat in game 6, and probably changed the outcome of the series. When LB was here, you always got the impression that his mind was working every minute of the game, and he was thinking of every possible way to gain an advantage during the course of a game. A master tactician. You just don't get that feeling with Flip. I think we do need a new coach, and perhaps (as some have suggested) we should promote one of Flip's current assistants.

    As many have said, our front line is just too old and slow. Dice and Sheed probably peaked two or three years ago, and are in the decline of their careers. The result is inconsistent performances, and games where they are beaten badly by younger players who are good, but not great (think Perkins vs. Dice in game 5). Some thought Sheed played badly tonight because he was forced to muzzle himself and control his emotions for fear of getting that next technical. That may have been part of it, but the technicals and outbursts have always been a problem that we accepted as a tradeoff for consistent excellent play. It is much harder to accept that tradeoff with a decline in play.

    Tay has now shown a pattern the past two (maybe three) ECF finals of struggling badly on the offensive end when he has to guard a premier, slashing type player. It also seems as if his slight build hurts him more in the playoffs, when play near the basket is much more physical than it is in the regular season.

    Joe D. seems very high on Amir (he gave him a very good contract to keep him here), but if so why didn't he insist on having Flip play him and develop him more during the regular season, and (related to that) why didn't he insist on more playoff minutes for him, especially in this series when we so desperately needed rebounding help? Joe apparently forced that kind of development of Stuckey by Flip (and the team did a very nice job of that). But why did he not do the same with Amir? Did Joe really fulfill his promise to Amir to give him lots of playing time? I don't think so.
     
  6. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    I think Game 3 was a much bigger problem than Game 5.
     
  7. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Perhaps I am not disappointed because I KNOW changes are going to happen. You are right. It is never good to blow it all up. Just ask the Lakers who were a low playoff tier team and who were about to trade the best player in the NBA before they got Gasol.

    If we get a new coach, then I would like to see how Sheed plays under him before we make a trade. If one of the starters do not get moved we need more players off the bench that can legitimately play better than the starters consistently. I think Stuckey has done that under Chauncey this year.

    We need a backup for Tay and a coach badly.
     
  8. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    The other thing I was thinking about was that the 04 and 05 teams performed at a much higher level than this year's team and really seem vastly superior to this year's team. The dropoff in intensity and execution seems very large, even though the core players are the same.
     
  9. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Game 3 may have been a bigger problem, but I think it is harder to put that loss on Flip than game 5, unless one believes that it is a coach's job to motivate a team that is three games away from going to the finals to play hard on their home court.
     
  10. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    That's because we had a huge dropoff in coaching. The Pistons don't have "superstar" players but we had a "superstar" coach. We lost him though.
     
  11. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    That is certainly a big part of it. And I suppose I should have said that the core is the same except that we had Ben, and had him in his prime. Maybe those are the two biggest factors, along with the age factor for Sheed and Dice (who didn't arrive until the 04-05 season). But there also seemed to be less hunger and less team chemistry this year as compared to 04 and 05.
     
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Tay for Bynum if his knee repairs.
    Sheed for one of those Joe Smith guys in Atl.
    Flip for a guy that will intergrate AA, Amir, Stuck so we don't lose them in a couple years.
     
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Maybe its my age. I still remember the LB who was great at developing players but could never get anything done in the post-season. He did make the Finals that one year with the Sixers but his main competition were the 50 win Bucks who could not even spell the word defense.

    04 and LB were a good fit, however his choice to use Darvin Ham over Okur for the simple fact that he had issues with Okur almost ended the run there. In 05 I was not a fan of his 7 man rotation.

    Flips problem is the players do not always listen to him. He is a great coach but lacks the deminer to get through to the players, then again we Sheed would be a tough cover for any coach. LB was able to get through but most would not.

    Time to move on. I think its safe to say that the Flip experiment is officially over.
     
  14. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    This is so on point. I was thinking about it the other day, and i think it really was LB that gave us that extra advantage. I mean he would have adjustments to the adjustments that coaches hadn't even made yet. He could adjust in game, game to game. He was what put us over the top, and it didn't matter that we didn't have a Kobe.
     
  15. max

    max All-Star

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    We did have a superstar in 04. That was when Ben was still in his heyday and had just won his 2nd straight DPY. Imagine that series if we had the 04 Ben Wallace to neutralize their frontcourt and get us those much needed rebounds.
     
  16. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    I hear a lot of people say Flip was not a big part of the problem, but I haven't read from any one on why he should stay. The main reason Flop was brought here 3 years ago was to stabilize the defense while bringing explosiveness to the offense. If he didnt accomplish that, because the players didnt listen or what, it is still HIS fault.

    As I said before, Ive been in the Army AND played organized sports and it is so important to have leadership you respect. And you 'want' to FOLLOW and win for.


    Flip lost this team sometime around when Ben refuse to go back in the game. And hasnt got them back since....
     
  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I don't know if you meant what I'm thinking, but I think I was thinking the same thing last night.

    Three years ago against the Heat coming off the 67 win season the refs to a large extent took it away. Gave the ECF to the Heat and then the 'ship. I remember thinking then that the conference finals were not a good test of Flip's ability to coach.

    Then last year in the ECF it became clear that things were not right. The defense was totally gone, and the vaulted offense wilted under not very strong pressure.

    This year there were some stumbles against the Sixers, but if Philly had played the whole season the way they played the last half they would have been a top four seed so I could forgive that some. Coming into the playoffs they were hot. Things seemed on track again when another year of experience and the addition of Reggie Lewis only managed to make the Magic one game better in the semi's. And then six and out against Boston, who is, at least in my opinion, just a better team. If Allen had found a shooting touch earlier it would have been over sooner.

    So, last year was the year to drop kick Flip into the river. Last year was the year to find an adequate backup small forward. Last year was the year to have made sure that some younger legs got some run. But that didn't happen.

    This year, the bench got developed (dropped in the playoffs, but still...), starters minutes went down, the team got back a bit to some defense, and unfortunately came up against the best team bargain basement shopping from teams with nothing to lose could buy.

    So, will Flip lose his job? I think so. But did his performance this season warrant the boot - maybe not so much. A little more leadership from the top at the end of last season and maybe we'd be rinsing out our jerseys today and getting ready to watch some basketball. Instead, we're going to get to watch another team with another bargain basement player stolen from a team that didn't care play a team with a whole roster of them.

    Things may get shook up good in the next month or so, but it will be for the wrong reasons, and more importantly, at the wrong time. Still, change is good for the soul and in a couple of weeks I'm going to be wanting to watch some basketball again.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    In an article on mlive it stated that only 1 other team in NBA history has lost in 3 straight conference finals. The 1953-55 Boston Celtics.

    So this is kind of unpercidented which helps explain the frusteration we are all experiencing.
     
  19. max

    max All-Star

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    I don't know what extent they would have helped but they did give the opportunity to do something different this ECF. Instead the zoo crew was essentially gutted in favor of Hunter and some older vet that we picked up. Same script as the past 2 ECF's really.
     
  20. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    The PT for AA and Amir should have been much higher during the regular season, so they would have been better equipped and more trusted for the post-season.
     

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