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Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by Dlev59, May 23, 2008.
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM So why doesn't he play our best rebounder?
This makes me want to scream. It seemed like we stopped doing it in G2. What gives?
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM Maybe Flip is lame and doesn't assert himself with the starters, but that's only in a vacuum. The problem is, he shouldn't have been hired in the 1st place and therein lies the problem. The players don't respect him and never have. Then when he finally comes in and shows he has no idea how to win, they respect him even less. So, essentially by hiring this guy Dumars sewed the seeds for what he's seeing now. You can't run a guy out of town who has proven he knows his stuff and replace him with a guy who hasn't proven anything. The players don't respect him because they have brains and know this guy knows very little about championship basketball. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You also don't need a college degree to see that this guy has no backbone or control. He's passive, reactive instead of proactive, and refuses to place an emphasis on the aspects of the game THIS team needs to be successful....defense and rebounding. Simply labeling guys that don't listen to him as cancers is not the solution. You could have 15 guys from the top of the roster on down wearing Flip Saunders jerseys and they would still lose every year. Bottom Line: Joe D and Bill D should have A) found someone who had a little more interest in their last initial and B) done a better and more thorough job of finding a new head coach to follow Larry Brown and they failed to do so in their search for a "good person." Enjoy your "good person" and your losses, they go hand in hand fellas.
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM Okay, so we agree. Joe shouldn't have hired Flip. The question I ask though, is who should he have hired, and who should he hire now. I'm at a loss at this one, since there isn't a guy out there that I can think of besides Pop that doesn't suck now, didn't suck then, and isn't likely to suck in the future. Your guess is not only as good as mine, it is likely better, because I'm at a loss as to who would have led this team to the promised land following LB.
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM No one was going to, lest we forget that the "if it ain't rough, it ain't right" mantra was developed under LB's watch during the 2005 playoffs. Flip's failure is not being able to overcome the bad habits and attitude problems of the players. I think they finally get it this year, that it is all on them, although we haven't seen that they are able to do anything about their own worst enemy, themselves. I got this perspective from today's practice interviews, which I should have posted within an hour.
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM (Assuming some of this was directed at me) you missed the point of my post. The problem I have with Flip is "Missed shots" is the first thing he always blames, and he does it because it deflects all blame off of him. "Missing shots is out of my control". But the worst part is that every time he makes a big deal out of "missing shots", it makes the situation worse. What is harder than getting out of a shooting slump? How about getting out of a shooting slump with a coach who does nothing but point out the fact that you're missing shots. It all stacks up. Each miss gets in their heads, and Flip makes it worse by blaming it for everything. When they're not shooting well, Flip's entire goal should be to get them thinking about ANYTHING else. That's when you rip into them about rebounding or defensive rotations. Get them moving the ball quicker on offense. But DONT simply point to "missing shots". It's Coaching 101, and it's why Flip will never be a good playoff coach. Among other things, he doesn't know how to push the right buttons.
I was wondering the same..I didn't even turn this thing this on until 9PM tonight...I thought I had said all wanted to say last night and decided to avoid all I could today by spending it at a movie...Indy 4 and Prince Caspian were both good Bottom line is, CB ain't right, it's 2006 revisited with an 70% Mr. BS. JOE should start Stuckey and alternate with CB and AA depending on how the game flows. We are getting beaten on the boards,..... when KG sits, put Amir in there. Don't let PJ beat you with boards and short jumpers. What's wrong with 5 minutes? If they don't win Monday it's over and Flip will take the fall just like he should and player shake-up will accompany this move later. Those who say Flip is not at fault have never been in management. I have 12 auditors who I managed and when one or two of them screw up, I can put them on an action plan, but believe me my butt is on the line too for letting their performance get out or line. Yes it's the players fault too for not following the coaches plays or directions, but ultimately the coach, manager or supervisor is accountable too.
We don't have that much time in-between games after a loss to tear into Flip anymore.
You guys need to quit comparing your jobs to this. It's safe to say that none of you are managing guys that get paid 2x-3x more than you. It's a different dynamic, and if anything your previous experience would put you in the shoes of Joe D. not Flip, and that's where you're right, it is his fault at the end of the day.
Geez Cloud, you haven't been this pumped up in years. You're right that it ultimately rests with Joe, but Joe isn't going anywhere, and deflecting the public criticism is going to be necessary to do his job well. Joe doesn't just have to build a winner, he has to keep the seats filled. Flip is in the impossible and maybe undesirable position of simply winning. He can't fall back on filling the seats, that's to Joe's credit.
Good point Roscoe. So how plausible do you think it is that Joe passed on "one step back now for two steps forward later" moments just so he could keep the sellout streak going?
Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM Nope. No genius, just someone`s opinion. Probably the only person on planet earth that has that opinion.
During the TNT studio show following the Lakers/Spurs game last night, Barkley criticized the Pistons for coming out so flat in a home game after their victory in game 2. He basically said that the Pistons did not play with the kind of motivation you would expect from a team that is three wins away from a trip to the finals. Went on to say that Flip cannot be blamed for that lack of motivation, and that it was on the players. I disagree with Sir Charles' attempt to absolve Flip of all blame, but that's his opinion for what it's worth.
I agree with him. It all comes down to execution. They were as flat as Barkely's singing. That was the must win game that they lost. Now they have to win 3 in a row to avoid a 7th game in Boston.
I don't think he was absolving Flip of all blame. He basically said what any other player is going to say, that as a player, if you can't get motivated in the finals series, when a championship is right there practically in the palm of your hands, then you must be dead, and Kenny happened to agree. Magic has also said as much in the past. Motivation is for the regular season, when games can arguably be monotonous and meaningless, not the finals two rounds when a championship is on the line. It may be Barkleys opinion, but it happens to also be the opinion of the great, great (did I mention great) majority of the NBA. For once, it's not just Sir Charles running his mouth.
Ok folks, this is nothing new to us, I mean about the Pistons showing a lack of motivation in huge games. My question is; why does this happen, time after time? I agree that it`s not Flip`s job to keep this team motivated, in the playoffs! Its` becoming quite obvious that these guys just don`t show up for every game during the playoffs. Can it be they are just egotistical overpaid athletes? Is it the lack of a true leader on the team? One who will not take this lackadaisacal attitude lightly while he gives 100% each and every night. I don`t get it, hopefully this will be the last year of this foolishness.
Sorry for the late report, but I haven't really been home this weekend. I haven't read anyone else's post in this thread so I'll just go with my experience of the game. The day started off great, getting in 18 holes of golf, but the back 9 was awful having to wait for 2 groups of slow people ahead of us. It ended up taking 5.5 hours when it could've take 2. So I met my buddy late for going to the Palace and had to eat there. When we pulled in nearly an hour before the game the parking lot was packed...people were tailgating, it was a gorgeous day, and everyone was excited. There was a cool intro where it showe the Pistons in 6 straight ECF's and then Sheed in a dark room, in front of the TV, turning toward the camera and saying "we're baaaack" with his goofy grin. Then one of the flame throwers didn't work at the beginning. An ominous sign? Who knows. I really disliked the whole 'white out' idea, because by he ECF almost everyone that goes to the games is a hardcore fan and decked out in Pistons gear. I would say it was the weakest white out in history...just seemed out of character and gimmicky for a veteran crowd. I turned to my buddy and we both hoped the Pistons wouldn't get off to another slow start like the previous 2 games. The crowd was louder than I've heard all season, and there was no excuse for the 11-0 terrible run. Chauncey was atrocious all game, and by the end people started yelling at him to 'play like Stuckey' or 'put Stuckey back in the game' or just flat out groaning when he would check back in. I truly believe he is the sole reason we lost - yeah we did too many isolations, etc., but that's on Chauncey to manage the game and run plays. Flip would yell at them to push the ball and Chauncey would simply walk the ball up the court. And what is with the high pick-and-roll? Every time both their guard and big double team our guard at the top and our big isn't quick enough to roll to the basket and make them pay, so our guard just ends up 5 feet behind the 3-point line and wasting 10 seconds off the play. It just disappoints me that they worked so hard to get homecourt, and p1ssed it away. Now they HAVE to win again in Boston. If they don't make the Finals, this game will be their 2007 ECF Game 5 against Lebron. Now, I will be at the game today and cheering just the same, but I still won't be happy if it is 2-2. It's funny because if they lost 2 in Boston and won 2 in Detroit I would feel better. The crowd booed several times, but the Pistons deserved it. The crowd got real quiet, but the Pistons gave nothing to cheer about. And it's not like we're stupid...we see what is going on. But we cheer for effort and defensive plays far more than made baskets or 3-point bombs or dunks. And there was none of that. Lindsey was right in saying the defense continues to disappoint. The number of open layups and dunks we gave up were unacceptable. On a sidenote, we've only lost in the postseason when I drove to the Palace and when my buddy wore his white jersey...and we did both. So I'll shoulder some of the blame for this loss.
Yup. The entire roster is chock full of followers or lone wolves. Chauncey is the captain , but he's just window dressing when it counts. Our "when it counts" guy is riding his wheelchair downhill in Cleveland.
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