ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:30 PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by Dlev59, May 23, 2008.

  1. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    A lot of those missed shots were BAD shots, I mean terrible ones, like I mentioned earlier, bad shots coming out of a timeout.

    The Tay, Rip and CB isos. WTF was that? They weren`t only bad shots, they were rushed and it looked like the Atlanat Hawks, not the veteran Piston team we keep hearing about.

    Yes, there were a lot of easy chippies too, however, I hate Flip for not ripping whomever was taking those bad, rushed shots a new one.

    As usual, he just almost looked away like he didn`t see what just transpired.

    Is that a good reason to hate him?
  2. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    well, I decided to make things easier for me: wait for game 4, let outcome decide judgement.

    But on thought came to my mind and I think it is worth of sharing.

    Why are they playing? This question has benn asked from starters countless times. For playoffs. For title. Every time the same answer.

    Ok, I understand that their current group sometimes gets bored from regular season but I believe, many were ready to sacrifice regular season for getting extra punch during playoffs from starters.

    Here we are: PLAYOFFS. But where is that much promised excitement from starters? Same regular season chocking. But these are PLAYOFFS, man. You are in you promised land. If being in PLAYOFFS can't motivate you, then what else?

    It is very scary that professional athlete do not find enough fuel from playing in PLAYOFFS. No wonder that flip has hard times with players who actually have no playing desire.

    If PLAYOFFS are not enough for you, then what else?

    In this case things are far more gravy than "adjustments" or "go to the paint".
  3. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    That's embarrasing, Flip can't even admit the real reason we lost. Too many jumpers and getting crushed on the boards. Two things that can be corrected with coaching, but Flip wants to blame his shooters for "missing" easy shots. Some free advice for Flip:

    Have Stuckey give a clinic to the starters on how to drive to the basket.
    Have JMax rebound, or play someone else. His D was great, but 1 rebound in 20 minutes? Those are Uncle Cliffy numbers.
    Play Amir and Afflalo.
    Stop playing Lindsey. For every steal he gets, he makes two fouls, and allows 2 rebounds.
  4. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    This all makes perfect sense except one thing. The coach is the one that makes the substitutions. If the starters are not getting the job done; which they weren't; why leave them out there to continue not getting it done. This makes no sense!!!

    It sounds like what you are saying is that if the starters are not getting it done; playing the bench will not help. So why has Stuckey been doing so well? He is a bench player.

    What we know is that playing the starters 40+ minutes is not giving us more wins then losses. What we also know is that we can get some energy and buckets from Stuckey. What we don't know is what we can get from AA and AJ.

    We need to find out now before it is an elimination game. Maybe they can have a similar effect as Stuckey and we will never know til we try. Who would have thought before CB went down that Stuckey could score like he does ?
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Getting a rebound at the end of a possession is part of defense.

    edited to add;

    Has Flip mentioned anything about the fact the were KILLED on the boards?!
  6. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    It's too late...tomorrow IS an elimination game realistically cuz there's no way this group can win 2 of the final 3 games in Boston...especially after their pathetic performance at home last night.

    You could see this coming a mile away. Seems like each time the Pistons play a good game, they follow it up with a real stinker. IMO it's re-tool time...the 'window of opportunity' has officially closed.
  7. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    You're right. That's how it should be. I was simply saying that Flip might attempt to use the Billups' injury as an excuse. I agree with you that Dumars should not allow it. A lot of coaches would love to have three straight ECF trips, but if the Pistons don't get back to the Finals, Flip must be fired. And some of the Pistons players must be moved.
  8. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Is there really any doubt after 3 years of anemic showings in the playoffs featuring 'the best starting 4 or 5'?

    Switch the Flip.
  9. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    "Anemic" might be too strong a word. Anemic at times. I would say "inconsistent." They were anything but anemic in Game 2. Again, the Pistons have gotten to the ECF a lot. I agree, it isn't good enough, but I never bought that "best starting 5" garbage that the media put out there. I think the team bought into it, however. Right now, this is the 4th-best team remaining in the playoffs. The lack of consistency is maddening.
  10. Ozarkruffrider

    Ozarkruffrider First Round Draft Pick

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    That's a catch phrase anymore that is meaningless. The media says that only as a hype phrase and then goes on and on and on about the other team. Notice how many times the Celtics, Magic and even the Sixers were on the highlight reel on BSPN?
  11. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    I was part of the big wush sound heard out of the State of MI in the 2nd quarter as everyone was flipping over to watch the Wings game. So I missed most of the 2nd. From what I saw in the 1st, 3rd and 4th was not bad defense. If anything it was pretty good defense.

    If the D was bad in the 1st half and was better in the 2nd half then at least give Flip some credit for making an adjustment.

    We are putting way too much emphasis on the coach here. The guy is working with what he has, its not his fault that the team could not excecute the most basic plays secure the defensive boards. So he brought up poor shooting in the post-game - the team shot 37%. You are not going to win that way.
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    @max

    I'm with you man, I refuse use flip as a scapegoat to all pistons problems too. But it seems, that we are minority here.
  13. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    After watching probably my 3000th Piston game (average 80 a year including playoffs times 40 or so years), I decided to wait til the morning after to make my point on one of the most 'hopeless' losses in Piston memory.

    I say hopeless, because thats what it is when Boston and KG has their way and its not a damn thing we can do about it.

    If u've never played organized sports or worked on your job as part of a team, you will never know the feeling of being under a poor leader. I have:
    -played organized sports
    - served 8 yrs in the Army
    - worked 13 yrs for TWCable
    it may even be a bad minister at your church or a family member, but the feeling of having to look that person in the eye and take orders from him, is undescribable.

    All u want to do is hold back ur vomit and wonder "when the hell are they gonna can this guy". Soldiers have committed friendly fire when it has gotten too crazy.

    This team has tuned Flip out for three years and believe , as a basketball man not a Piston fan, that these will be his last 4 games. Doc is just a better leader than Flip and it will show depending on who goes up 3-2.
    The first two dunks of the game yesterday would have had me calling timeout and cussing they butts out!

    The team is playing for 'their' own legacy. Even the 3 sec out of bounds play Billups made in game 2 was NOT the play Flip called(see his comments in Detroit news). It was supposed to be a doublecurl for Rip. Tay and Billups saw something else and got a layup. Flip will ALWAYS call a play for a jumpshot with his 'our shots arent falling " butt!

    The old defense Pistons would have won that game 80-79. Those days are gone. Flip was brought here to make our offense better in the playoffs. He's failed.

    1. To win this series, he has to understand we need to use our bigs effectively. To include Amir, who's probably mentally gone for this season and Hayes , just to come in when Pierce goes out.

    2. Stop isoing Tay. It dont work. Post him on the right block or float him in the corners. Other than that, dont let him touch it.

    3. We cant depend on Sheed or Dice. we can just take what they give us, so screen roll Rip and have Stuckey continue to drive relentlessly.

    4. Billups. Game 1 and 3 vs Game 2. nuff said......
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    He mentioned those "bad shots" in his post game presser.

    Yet you assume that he didn't pass that info on to his players?

    You're reaching Dlev.
    Flip has mentioned time and time again that the Pistons need to be patient and work the ball to the weak side in order to take advantage of the virtual zone Boston is running.

    It seems to me that you need him to peel off a switch and tan some behinds right there on the court (like he could, lol) before you folks think he's upset about it.

    Theres not a single thing the Pistons have done wrong that Flip hasn't told them they couldn't afford to do. There isn't a single thing they have failed to do that Flip hasn't told them to do over and over again.

    For some reason people want to ignore that little fact and focus on only 25% of the things that come out of his mouth.

    You're hardly ever going to see it when Flip gets upset. He's a professional. Thats how professionals operate (re: Joe D.)

    I, for one, and not so enamored with these players that I feel the need to give them a free pass when the blame is squarely on their soft, soft, shoulders.
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Obviously you didn't go back and count shots in the paint in the first half.

    Flip told you why they lost the game, now it's his fault that you don't get it?
  16. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM


    "No rebounds, No rings" - Flip Saunders, day 1
  17. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    I didn`t know you were in the huddle with the Pistons during timeouts.

    What makes you assume he DID pass certain information on to the players?

    If he passes this information to the players and they don`t listen to him what do you think he should do?

    I say sit their asses down. Period.

    Yet as you assume, he passes this info to the players and they continue to not listen. What does that tell us? Asssuming of course that is what`s happening.

    There were at least 5 or 6 times when these "bad shots" Flip is referring to occured. So, you are telling me these bad shots were addressed by Flip, yet the players kept on doing their own thing.

    I`m not buying it.
  18. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Actually, that was his play. Each of his plays consist of options and reads that the player has to make depending on what the defense decides to take away from you. Listen to his post game again. He makes that plain to anyone that understands the offense.
    Different rules, different game. The old Pistons defense has been legislated out of the pro game, and with it has come different ways to defend, and different ways to score. I'm just paraphrasing Joe D when I say that though...

    Saunders is not isoing Tay. Billups, Rasheed, and Rip are isoing Tay. Furthermore, it wouldn't appear to be an iso play if they would simply do what Flip has drawn up for them and move without the ball....not just 1 or 2 guys, but all of them.

    The Celtics are playing heavy to the strong side and lagging 5-10 feet off the guys that they want to shoot the ball. 1 pass and then a foray to the rim will fail time and time again, as the Celtics set defense has three guys in the area at all times, one of them being Kevin Garnett. Only hard cuts and screens are going to free up shooters, and only player movement is going to force the defense to snap out of their zone around the painted area.

    The idea that a guy shouldn't touch the ball except in certain situations is helping Boston, not Detroit, and the sheer fact that our starting wing is "that" type of player is one of the reasons why Chuck Daly said that the players are flawed, not the coach.

    ....Right into the open arms of the Boston triple team. What these players need to do is start busting their butts off the ball - Hit gaps and come off screens and picks hard, and look to make quick aggressive plays (passes as well as shots...most likely instead of) when they are doing this with the ball in their hands. The current nonsense of fading off of screen and roll/pop plays is doing nothing but giving the defense time to recover. They are failing to find a balance between decisiveness and out-of-control.

    This is old news, but I would at the very least expect them to make open shots from 10 feet in. They were blowing them all night, and that isn't because they were running Flex to beautiful perfection. When I see some textbook sets turn into crap, I'll turn around and blame Flip.

    But all I've seen lately is sloppy reads on both ends of the floor. That, and missed shots. :)
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    LOL. I noticed that, too. He must have said "you know" about 40 times in 2 minutes.
  20. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Did you guys ever read Gulliver's Travels?

    The two countries comprised of little people are feuding over the proper way to crack open an egg. At the small end or the large? Gulliver suggests they crack it down the middle, which of course both sides find utterly preposterous.

    "The feuding between the Lilliputians and the Blefuscudians is meant to represent the feuding countries of England and France, but the reason for the war is meant to satirize the feud between Catholics and Protestants, over issues that Swift may have found trivial."

    Hmmmm...

    I'm just sayin'... ;)

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