ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:30 PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by Dlev59, May 23, 2008.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    I specifically remember listening to him talk about that and thinking to myself, "this guy gets it."
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    @Dre - I looked at the transcripts which I will post tomorrow. Nothing from the players (yet)

    I know bro. Over the last few years, I've had my eye on the bigger pictures a lot. Thanks for the post though. I really appreciate it.
  3. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Not only did our bigs get out rebounded but not a single one of them went to the FT line????:confused: Which sounds to me like they were avoiding playing around the hoop.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Right. At this point, the only way our bigs are going to get in the paint is if Stuckey drives and dishes to them or if they are getting offensive put-backs.
  5. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    I didn't think Sheed was our main problem tonight. But that said, I think there has been a dropoff in his play in this year's playoffs as compared to previous years. This is just an impression; I have not compared his playoff stats for this year with those in the 04, 05, 06 and 07 playoffs. He will be 34 in September, and perhaps age is catching up with him.
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Are they allowed to send that many ppl?

    I didn't watch the presser, but if Flip really said that again, i'm glad i didn't; i probably would've broken my remote.

    Also Doc always has gotten the importance of defense. He's tight with LB, and i remember his commentating throughout the PO's when he used to do our games back then.

    And can someone explain the minutes in this one? Tay played more than Pierce? Sheed more than KG? We were getting blown out for a good portion of the game.
  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    <p>Wow. In reading the comments, I now see their two jokers calling for people to edit their posts to fit their view of the world. Ain't going to happen, get over yourselves. Wise, you are a bad influence around here.</p>


    <p>Fortunately, the timeouts, free throws, and other game stoppages corresponded to when the Wings scored their goals, so we did not miss any scoring in the Wings game. Good to see some team being coached well tonight.</p>


    <p>Dyess hit some shots. Great. But we continually lost ground with him in the game. He hurts our D something fierce. JMAX hit shots too, and swatted shots, and basically was everywhere he needed to be. Meanwhile, our best rebounder, Amir Johnson, continues to sit. Saunders did shock us though by playing Amir nearly a whole minute to end the 2nd half. I imagined the whole team otherwise would have to come down with the flu on the same day to get Johnson in a game, but low and behold, there he was. Seems he does play for us afterall. No Afflalo, our best perimeter defender. Instead, we get Hunter, who was continually too slow on defensive rotations. Hunter, with no assists, and never anything positive on the offensive end. I will give Hunter this though, at least he has enouhg common sense to let Stuckey rock when Stuckey is on a roll. Prince and Rip could certainly learn something from Hunter in that regard. Forget everything else Prince did tonight, the fact he pretended not to be able to feed the ball to Amir in that last minute, the fact he could not manage to give Stuckey scoring ops while in the game with him, speaks volumes against him. I know, he would incur the wrath of Saunders if he were to help make a young player look good, but Prince was a young player once. Prince should realize that its his turn to give the young guys a chance.</p>


    <p>Rip had a mixed game. Could not hit a shot sometimes, starting out about 4 for 14. But between getting to the line, and hitting a layup here and there and making a few outside shots in the 2nd half finally, he managed to score over 20. And his D on Allen was pretty darn good.</p>


    <p>I won't slam Tay too hard, as he was guarding Pierce, but no, Tay has not had much worse of a game of late.</p>


    <p>My friend kept slamming Sheed for lack of D (and the silly 3 point attempts as well), but I kept pointing out that Sheed was doing great on D, as long as he was paired with JMAX, and not spending all his time covering for Dyess when Dyess was in with him.</p>


    <p>Now, here we are, down 2-1, having won one fairly close game. Just barely staying alive here, going Saunders way, attempting to exclude Afflalo and Amir out of the rotation. It will not work. Either Afflalo with start playing in the rotation again, or we will lose the series, and Flip will be fired. Now, I doubt Flip really cares, so what can Dumars do? Yeah, he can fire the coach. Its not too late. Short of firing the coach, Dumars is going to have to find some way to convince Flip that Hunter is well over 90 years old and really should not be playing over a good strong defensive player like Afflalo. Or convince him that we really should play our best rebounder, even if he is just a third year player.</p>


    <p>Billups looked just as injured as game one. Anyone who failed to notice, Billups tweaked that hammy toward the end of game two. Yeah, like many have said, Stuckey should indeed be starting. But Billups coming off the bench, I say thats maybe not a good idea. I say let Billups heal, and go with a three guard rotation of Prince, Stuckey, and Afflalo. Play Amir to start at small forward to allow this to happen. Retire Hunter immediately, there is no future in playing this guy. Have Dixon dress as an emergency guard, and someone who can come in for offensive plays and knock a shot down.</p>


    <p>Hayes, no way he should play, and he should not even dress. Neither should Herrmann. Since we have to dress 12 guys, between Hermmann, Hayes, the injured Billups, and Hunter, you might as well dress Herrmann, again, just to come in and hit a shot for end of quarter situations where you can sub in someone just for an offensive play. (Or if Billups promised not to do too much, you could have him dress and be that guy who comes in for just one shot on offense - he is no where near ready to play any D.)</p>


    <p>Stuckey was getting the the rack at will pretty much, and making his shots, or making his free throws. Some of these drives were pretty awesome. Lots of ups, lots of fancy moves in air. Very exciting to watch this youngster play. And on D, he got steals. Not just the kind where you pick up a loose ball someone else caused. But the kind where Stuckey caused the loose ball, and picked the ball up too. And man did he ever know what to do when he got the ball - use his blazing speed to get right down the court and attack that hoop. If Stuck had made an outside jumper or two we could put this one in the great game category for him. As it was, just very, very good.</p>


    <p>The bad? Basically that Flip is still trying coach with the main goal of not playing Amir or Afflalo. Some kind of silly goal. Nice to see him coach for wins instead. If only someone could get him to care about this team. Maybe on of you cheerleader types could maybe talk him into caring? Do us fans some good instead of trying to tell us what to write.</p>


    <p>The good? Stuckey rocks. Jason Maxiell can play some great D, and knock down some terrific shots, just going up and over people to get those jumpers to go. Flip is under no law that requires him to play injured players like Billups, nor old players like Hunter. The next game could be different.</p>


    <p>To sum, you cheerleaders, your way, no Afflalo and no Amir, is not working. Time for a change. Time to put a young, hungry team out there.</p>
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Yep, I am glad you are one of the few to see the genious of the Doc and his likeness to the Great One.

    You are finally starting to get it. Flips no #1 goal is to not play Amir and Afflalo. #2 is to to win the game.
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Can we get that game 4 thread up? I am fired up for that one!
  10. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Defense wins championships. It's not that hard.
  11. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Flip Saunders makes me want to kick a puppy.

    Seriously. This whole "We missed shots" crap has got to end. When you get pounded on the glass and abused defensively all game long, I hate that Flip tries to use this as a cop out. When you shoot a crap-ton of jump shots, you're going to have plenty of nights like this. And on these nights, you can't bring half-assed effort.

    This is an ACTUAL quote from his presser...
    They made shots early? It's pretty easy to make shots when they're wide open dunks.

    I don't even understand why "making shots" is something Flip needs to be talking about. His job is to get them in position to make plays, get them playing hard, and playing as a team. Making shots is up to the players. Flip needs to concentrate on the other aspects of the game. Instead, by constantly talking about missing shots, it makes the players think EVEN MORE about all of their missed shots when they're on the floor. It's terrible coaching.

    On the bright side... Rodney Stuckey is going to be the best player on this team in a year or two. Hell, if he was starting and given the keys to the ship, he might be the best right now. And it's about time Flip thinks about starting him. 3 games, 3 terrible starts. It would be nice to have Stuckey in there to get a layup or some FTs to "Break the ice" for this team. He is the one guy on this team that Boston can't contain.
  12. max

    max All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    We did not lose that game because of defense. Unless you want to count getting out boarded nearly 2-1 as part of defense? How many times did the Pistons nearly force a 24 sec violation only to miss the rebound and give them a 2nd scoring opportunity? I don't care how good you are, you are not going to win like that.
  13. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    It was the tale of two halves. Unfortunately, both tales were bad for Detroit. Boston shot something like 55% from the field in the 1st half en route to an 18 point half-time lead. In the second half, the D stepped up a bit (once they started trapping), but that's when they started giving up 2nd chance after 2nd chance. I would say poor D and rebounding were both large factors in the loss.
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    What is wrong with you guys?

    Anybody with the game still available to them, rewatch the first half and start counting shots in the paint.


    Then start counting misses in the paint, turnovers from the paint, versus shots made.


    Then watch the Celtics run back in transition after every miss and score before the defense is set.

    They scored off our offense, and just cause you guys don't get it, you get ticked off at Saunders for all the wrong reasons.


    The key to scoring against good defensive teams like Boston, San Antonio, and yes, Detroit, is to increase the amount of scoring opportunities in transition before their defense gets set.

    That all starts with a rebound. And it's the first thing Flip was preaching when he got here. Don't blame him for it.

    And if you want to stop Boston from doing it on the other end, make them take it out of bounds once in a while.

    It's pretty simple stuff, but every time Flip alludes to it, you folks get all up in arms about it. Nobody's in a tizzy when he mentions that the defensive reads weren't right on the part of his players. Obviously he stresses defense and defensive rebounding, but no one mentions that either.

    So he said we missed shots. Guess what? We did. Rewatch the first half, and start counting the chippies, cause there were plenty, and they always led to great opportunities on the offensive end for the Celtics. And you know what? The greatest defensive gurus in the NBA can't coach you into lockdown defense after turnovers and missed layups.


    In fact, it's a pretty well known adage that missing a layup usually results in a layup on the other end for the other team. Best defense on that is to make your darned layups.

    Hate him for the right reasons, not the ones you don't want to understand.
  15. anakin

    anakin First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Good post CloudWalker. Couldn't watch the game live but watched a bit of the taped action. Agree w/ your observations. This game was on the whole not a coaching failure. Missed shots, and rebounds led to their demise. CB was awful. This series is not over by a long shot. The Pistons can win Game 4 and take the fight to Boston for Game 5. Whether they will or are capable of it is to be seen. Sometimes when a starting unit has played too long together they can't get it up for the big games. This will have to be addressed in the offseason. Pistons remind me of a dog that occassionally hunts.
  16. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Can't say angry or disappointed and whatnot, certainly the players played ugly bad and lost the game, but I can't stand to watch the coach who left them out there to embarrassed themseleves and without trying to make any change like the same old same old way. I can't help to guess what was in his mind in the predicament, his next job perhaps.
  17. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    Well, I'm pretty sure that they don't blow "hot and cold" randomly. Isn't the same old story: most of the time, they blow hot when they are in the underdog position, cold when they are the favorites. In that case, maybe you can be optimistic, because right now it's looking like they are going to have to win game 7 in Boston to win the series and they'll be underdogs there for sure. (or alternatively, they have to win the next three games, and what are the odds of that? -- btw, that's still my pick: pistons in 6.

    p.s. i understand that my predictive formula leaves out a few variables -- like all of them except one.
  18. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Billups' injury might save Flip's job. Flip can say Billups was hurt in the ECF and "my team was not at full strength." Might work.

    As for the game, watching an old "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" film is about the same as watching these Pistons. We need Hyde to wreak havoc on the opposing team and beat them into submission. What we often get is the mild-mannered, but weak-minded, pontificating Dr. Jekyll. I don't think Flip has the serum to fix this split-personality team. Playing Spellcheck and Amir is not, alone, going to help this team win.

    I said during the last round that Billups would not be fully healed until the offseason. To criticize him is poppycock. He isn't 100%.

    I stayed with the hot hand last night: the Wings. I only casually watched the Pistons game, as I suspected they would come out flat. What were they down? 15-4? It's absurd.

    Again, this team can get it all back on Monday and then who knows what to expect in Game 5?
  19. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Re: ECF Game 3 Celtics/Pistons Sat. May 24th 8:00 PM

    I'm in agreement on starting Stuckey. The Pistons starting a game with energy & some penetration would be a refreshing change of pace. Plus, Chauncey must be hurting...he hardly seemed to be in the game during his 27 minutes...1 of 6, 3 PFs, and led the team with a -25.
  20. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I disagree.

    Flip`s firng will be attributed to his entire tenure here, not just this current season.

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