1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

ECF Game 2 Celtics vs Pistons Thurs May 22 8:30PM

Discussion in '2008 Playoffs' started by max, May 21, 2008.

  1. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    tartu
    Only Okur has been a player from "GM dumars era" pistons camp, who has really blossomed elsewhere. But he could have left anyway( I really do not want to reopen this discussion). Delfino, keep that in mind, has a contract year, so he decided to go to team where he could pump his stats for fatter contract. Ben Wallace is 50% what he was here.

    So only three players from dumars GM era have some meaningful impact in their new teams. Oh yes, some " I, as a rookie, was treated unjustifily by detriot coaches and therefore my development stopped" players have tried to prove that in new surrounding they can do , but they have failed. I think this blows widespread theory here how pistons coaches hate their( rookie) players.
     
  2. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    10,037
    Likes Received:
    671
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Rax I just hate losing talent or seeing it waste away, for whatever reason.
     
  3. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    What's worse? 5 fouls in 8-10 minutes of play or a lay up line to the Pistons hoop? If some of our other players took a cue from him and put some players on their arses we may see them think twice before prancing into the paint.

    Even if Amir doesn't get the block; he has the opposition looking for him to avoid the block or the hard foul they know is coming. That is Piston Basketball!!!! :football:
     
  4. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    421
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    its not just the 5 fouls he does in the 10 mins... its the fact that those 5 fouls put the other team at the ft line early in the quarters... The bench played more then well enough in game one... well besides what I felt was a lack of energy out of max. but the veterns off the bench held there own thats what you want out of your bench on the road... bench keeps you even and the starters win the games. Thats what there paid to do. If our starters can't do better then -14 (which 3 of our starters were or worse) for the game, were never going to win any playoff game. end of story.
     
  5. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    How has it not materialized when he's played well overall? He was a major part, as well as AA, of that great West Coast swing we had, and in general was a contributer in the games he played extensive min.

    His defense, rebounding, and hustle was lauded not only by fans, but by HIS coach who said those are the things he needs to do to get minutes then promptly stopped playing him, and who also waxed poetic on the greatness of Afflalo but still manages to find ways to take him out of the rotation even though he successfully guarded LBJ, who is much tougher than Pierce. Pierce will rarely be able to get around AA. That's a gauruntee.

    You can see his talent on the court, and the coach REFUSES to play him to the point where he takes away min he deserves, gives them to a guys that just joined the team, and then to add insult plays Hermann over him. He can't even get 2 min when we're getting blown out in the PO's!

    This is not a fantasy in people's heads. It's based on actually seeing him play, and the reason it's stressed so much is b/c Flip seems to have some sort of vendetta against playing him.

    I really truly believe he belives that the world will explode if Amir steps on the court.

    I mean really what will happen if you put Amir in in the 2nd quarter. We will get outscored? blown out? Doubt it. Besides, the starters are doing a good enough job of f'ing it up all by themselves already, but let's just keep playing them and hope. Great strategy.

    edited to add;

    This is not directed specifically at you. I'm just frustrated. And if/when we lose this series, i won't be the only one.
     
  6. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Willington, CT
    Good discussion of Amir on this thread. I don't think he'll be a factor in this series. Even if he does play, Flip's MO is still to go with the vets even when bench guys have shown "flashes." That being said, I'd like to see him get some minutes. I never like to wonder "what if." But given that the stakes are higher (it's the ECF), I think Flip continues with "safe" personnel decisions. Also, I don't think Amir will be traded. I think Dumars likes the kid and feels differently about him than he did about the Serbian gangsta. If Detroit loses to Boston, I think Flip should be traded.

    A bigger question: Which Jason Maxiell is gonna show up tonight? Can this guy perform outside the Palace?
     
  7. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    tartu
    If we lose this series, I'm ready to blame absolutely everyone( except for myself, of course), so I hear you!
     
  8. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    915
    Likes Received:
    189
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Kaohsiung, Taiwan
    It's not about Amir, AA or anyone, it's about the head coach. Flip is not the one who capable to go beyond conference semifinal, he's not the one who willing to groom young players without a name, he's not the one who capable to know his players. I don't trust this guy, I wish I'm wrong but I doubt.
     
  9. PistonFanInCavsTown

    PistonFanInCavsTown First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2007
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    The Pistons have played 12 playoff games so far. Amir has played in 6 of those games, but in only 2 of them games has he played more than 6 minutes. His totals from those 6 games are 41 mins., 11 rebs., 0 stls., 2 blks. and 7 fouls.

    IMO, at this point he needs at least 10 minutes in the game (and not garbage time) to get up to playoff pace.

    But even beyond that, we allowed < 90 points in Game 1. We needed better offensive execution, not defense. Amir brings nothing on the offensive end other than the possibility for put-backs because his man cheats so far off of him defensively.

    I do prefer to see Chauncey/Rip/AA rotations than Chauncey/Lindsey/Rip, if only so that Rip isn't forced to defend Pierce.
     
  10. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    3,999
    Likes Received:
    0
    Defense creates offense.

    This is a great point, and probably the basis for alot of frustration.
     
  11. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    So instead of sending them to the free throw line to hit 10 shots you would rather give up the lay up or dunk? The fouls are what make them think about going to the paint. Rip gets his ARSE beat everytime he gets near the paint. Don't you think that has some bearing on which shots he is more likely to take during the game?

    Make Rondo think twice before diving down the lane for a lay up!!!!
     
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    At his best, Flip brings nothing to the table for the Pistons. The best you can hope for is that he doesn't take things off the table for them, but more often than not, he does.

    He has zero influence over them and even less of a clue on how to maximize their talents. The only changes that may be made tonight will be making more shots or turning the ball over less. It will have nothing to do with Flip. We're looking at the 2nd half of G4 before Flip makes a change of any consequence, a change anyone else would have made at the half of game 1. They came out and played worse in 2nd half after looking terrible in the 1st.

    Amir Johnson or Afflalo as individuals will not help just like Jordan Farmar or Sasha Vulavcxihvgcd as individuals wouldn't. They can help as part of a group though.

    Instead, DET will continue to run an offense during key stretches that would be better off trying to punt the ball into the hoop after inboudning it then trying to complete the play. At least they'd already be back on D after kicking it than having to scramble back after throwing another pass away. Look on the bright side, 79 is the new 100.
     
  13. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    3,251
    Likes Received:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Willington, CT
    I love the "punt" comment.

    :pound::pound::pound::pound::pound:
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    He thinks twice now. Should I dunk it or lay it up?
     
  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,973
    Likes Received:
    3,226
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    In Amir's current state of development (or lack of development), I totally agree with this statement.

    BUT

    AJ is a "9th man" that can provide the Pistons with a unique skill-set as well as game-changing energy.

    I kinda view Amir the same way a lot of people view Arvis: stick him in the game, let him jack up a couple of 'heat-check' shots, get him outta there quick if he's off.
    It's the same deal with Amir. - give him a couple of minutes, if he's active on the glass and bothering/blocking shots, give him some run. If he picks up a couple of quick fouls, YANK him.
     
  16. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    :pound: :pound: :pound:
     
  17. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Michigan's Thumb
    In some games it may only take 3 or 4 minutes to change the outcome. I would hate to be sitting at home early in the play offs thinking " I wonder how Amir would have done against Posey" or "I wonder if Afflalo could have broke Paul's rythm?"
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,942
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Look folks, we need better games from Rip, Sheed and Billups and we can beat Boston in Boston. Period.

    We can overcome not playing AA, AJ and Flip not coaching. :)
     
  19. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,567
    Likes Received:
    176
    Location:
    tartu
    'scoe, you are my man.

    Btw, we all know that owner Davidson is cheapskate. We should mention to him that this team actually does not need a coach, so Davidson can save several millions from paying to somebody.

    My lifetime experience says that when you put things into "money perspective" then message goes through.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,836
    Likes Received:
    3,245
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Yeah, but then Prince and Dyess will play poorly and Ray Allen will go for 30.
     

Share This Page