Did we get rid of the wrong Wallace?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Wallace hates zone defense
    Forward says money is motivating force behind less physical style of play.
    by Chris McCosky / The Detroit News

    I love how Sheed isn't afraid to call it the way he sees it, but if Ben and Sheed don't like zone, why the heck would Flip try to push it?
     
  2. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Because no one seemed to able to stop dribble penetration after game two of the Cleveland series playing man straight up?

    Sure, part of me likes that in your face man to man thing. I remember the series of games when the Pistons were holding teams to under 70. That was sure fun to watch. But a big part of me hates late rotations and a parade to the free throw line.

    We all keep saying that the game is different, but we also don't want to make any changes to keep up with it. Time to smell the coffee?

    Properly motivated and on his game, Sheed may be the best post defender I've ever seen. He moves his feet and he has the quickest hands of any big man I know of. But for the other half of the time...
     
  3. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Good point- but that's not a new problem and with Larry, Ben and Sheed stuck to their man while being in posession to go after another man's player if he'd penetrate past him. With the zone, that didn't work too good.
    But I tend to think it's because Ben wasn't the monster last season he used to be, not scarying the penetrating guards as much any longer.
     
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Or the new rule enforcement took the fear away. Or both.

    No doubt though unless all five commit to the zone bad things happen.
     
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Interesting question, but it all boiled down to the salary issue didn't it? (At least that was the excuse given). Wouldn't both still be here for at least one more season if not?
     
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I think the opposing guards blew past our perimeter defenders too easily. There was a big dropoff by Chauncey defensively last year. We also gave them alot of time on the shot clock to create a shot allowing them to pick us apart with timely passes when our PFs/Centers commited to help defense.
     
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    And Rip wasn't the same player after the ankle sprain. He was only coming back towards the end of the Heat series.

    And if the quotes in the press posted lately are accurate, Sheed's ankle was worse than it looked.
     
  8. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I blame the rules (and their star friendly interpretation) for the decline of the man D.

    There's no question that times have changed in the NBA. As much as I loved the lock down man D the Pistons have been known for, its becoming less and less effective in this offence driven league.

    If we want to remain contenders, we need to change with the times. I just hope Flip can get everyone to buy into the system, otherwise it could be an ugly season.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This is a scathing indictment IMHO.

     
  10. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Ouch indeed.

    As posted elsewhere, I watched the second half on ESPN Classics of game five of the Pistons/Celtics series in '87 (I think). The difference in defensive intensity between the basketball you could see there and what we see now was just amazing. What is more amazing though is that both of those teams scored over a hundred points. That kind of defense today would give you a game in the 80s at best.

    I'm thinking that the situation we see today is helped along quite a bit by the widespread inability of most NBA players to shoot the basketball. We take it easy on guys who drive or else no one would ever score.

    Ah, fundamentals...
     
  11. Dumars4Ever

    Dumars4Ever Bench Warmer

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    Yeah, the famed Bad Boys defensive intensity was often discussed via the statistic of how often they held their opponents under 100 points. It was still a big deal to do that against anyone back then.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's not the same game I originally fell in love with, but I still enjoy it very much.

    The lack of fundamentals can be directly tied to the over-commercialization of the league. The recruitment of 8 year olds by shoe companies. Allowing high schoolers to enter the draft etc.

    The irony is that the league is trying to increase scoring with rules tweaks and re-interpretations, and yet the root cause of the problem goes unaddressed. The more they dumb down the game, the lower the skill becomes.

    They are replacing trained skill with athletic talent. Development with potential.

    It's like a species eating their young, at one point, the food supply is exhausted.
     
  13. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    God bless Sheed for calling it like it is (and for sticking another knife in Flip's back, can it take more than 5 before he falls?). Sheed was, as a basketball player, raised right. You don't take on a Dean Smith product.

    Roscoe, IMO the fault is with HS coaches. The NBA has cannibalized the NCAA game to the extent that you can't expect real coaching to go on there, at least not coaching at the expense of trying to win now. So you've really got to get to the players before then. Instill the good habits and prevent the bad.

    In 2004, the year we won the rings, Billups did not know how to run a 3-on-1 fast break, i.e. jumpstop and the FT line and make a pass/shoot decision. That was second nature to me by age 15. That scenario just isn't right.
     
  14. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I believe that some of this "lack of development" will be addessed when each team can own their own D-league team... hire fundamental coaches and give the Amirs of the league proper instructions for two years while learning the home teams methods/plays.
     
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree that may be the only workable solution. It's still going to be hard though for a team to send a player like Wade down - who couldn't hit a jump shot to save his life (unless playing against Detroit).

    Some combination of a d-league and a higher age limit for NBA players could help. And allowing players who tried and failed to still play college ball would help too.
     
  16. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That is for sure- CB was always having trouble to stay in front of his man but last year it became a problem because of the mixture of Ben's at least slight decline and the new rules (man, I do hate them!!!).
    With a Zone that features Nazr and Mohammed in the paint, it's going to be more difficult to defend the quick guards- even harder than it was already last season. But I still think it's better to play Zone D, even with our material this season- mainly because of the rules changement that allow the defender to watch the superstars and accompany them while driving to the hoop.
     
  17. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    My understanding of the article is; the Pistons will play Zone, however, they will also play Man Up, I get the impressions that Man will continue to be their bread and butter which they will go to in a New York Minute.

    I really, really like the way Sheed just put it out there, reminds me of Barkley who deosn't hestitate to cal it like it is, whatever comes up comes out.

    I think Sheed will emerge as a helluva leader both on and off the court.
     
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    The game ain't different...only the perception of the game is different. Hence, all the reactionary activity to the perception rather than to the reality.

    Besides, I love how McCrapsky always ends his articles with the company line...
     
  19. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    the game is different we need to adjust. the zone isn't a favorite of big men because it doesn't affect them as much. it's just simply too hard to defend lebron, wade and the likes that drive to the hole playing man to man the way the new rules are enforced. zone will help the outside players not the inside big men.

    it's easy to just say lets play lock down D. in reality it's very hard to do it without fouling out on the outside. it can only be played for 4 minutes at a time. i think the zone should get us to the 4th and then we apply the lockdown.

    sheed and ben probably don't like zone cause they are right next to thier man and they dont' check players that dribble. the defense of post players hasn't really changed but the outside has changed. it's like defending with your hands tied behind your back.
     
  20. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    good one. very concise.

    In addition to that, its the sportscenterization of the NBA...30 second highlights. More people will watch a game on TV than sit in the arena. More people than that will see lebron throw the funk down on Sportscenter than during the telecast. Its a different skill set YOu don't need to know the intricacies of basketball to get on late night TV. The more the nba tries to get a broader audience the more artificial sweeteners they have to put in the recipe.
     

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