Did Chris Webber really disappear in the '07 Playoffs?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TaS, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I've heard it thrown around a lot. He was great in the regular season, but he disappeared in the playoffs when it mattered most b/c he is a career-long choker. As the Pistons consider signing Webber, I think that his performance deserves some analysis.

    First Round. Pistons vs. Magic
    Webber matched up against Dwight Howard and/or Darko Milicic.

    #1- 33 min/ 12 pts/ 5 reb/ 1 ast/ +3 Average
    #2- 26 min/ 10 pts/ 9 reb/ 3 ast/ +7 Great (almost doub-doub in 26)
    #3- 28 min/ 15 pts/ 7 reb/ 0 ast/ +2 Very good
    #4- 35 min/ 11 pts/ 10reb/ 4 ast/ +11 Great

    Round 1 was solid as heck. His 12pts/8reb/2ast average for the series in 31 mpg is almost exactly equal to Rasheed's stats this year. I would say that Webber "showed up" in all four games against Orlando, who we will likely face in the 2nd round this year.

    Second Round. Pistons vs. Bulls
    Webber matched up against Ben Wallace and/or Tyrus Thomas?

    #5- 20 min/ 5 pts/ 7 reb/ 0 ast/ +2 Ave-below ave. Limited PT.
    #6- 27 min/ 22 pts/ 7 reb/ 3 ast/ +8 Great
    #7- 24 min/ 0 pts/ 3 reb/ 2 ast/ -17 Terrible
    #8- 17 min/ 0 pts/ 1 reb/ 1 ast/ -16 Horrendous (Bresec-esque)
    #9- 24 min/ 9 pts/ 8 reb/ 0 ast/ -22 Good production.
    #10- 23 min/ 5 pts/ 9 reb/ 1 ast/ +8 Ave-good. Lot of rebs.

    This was obviously a bad series for Webber. 2 total no-shows. However, 4 games with 7 or more rebounds in limited minutes. On the series, he averaged 23 min/ 6.8 pts/ 5.8 rebs/ 1.2 ast. This is very similar to Maxiell's stats this year in 23 mpg.

    Third Round. Pistons vs. Cavs.
    Webber matched up against Big Z and Sideshow Bob.

    #11- 19 min/ 10 pts/ 4 reb/ 0 ast/ +1 Average
    #12- 24 min/ 9 pts/ 7 reb/ 5 ast/ +13 Great
    #13- 28 min/ 15 pts/ 7 reb/ 3 ast/ -4 Very good
    #14- 20 min/ 2 pts/ 3 reb/ 1 ast/ +2 Very bad
    #15- 30 min/ 20 pts/ 7 reb/ 0 ast/ +15 Great
    #16- 26 min/ 13 pts/ 6 reb/ 0 ast/ -10 Good

    For the series, he averaged 25 min/ 11.5 pts/ 5.7 rebs/ 1.5 ast. Pretty good averages for less than average playing time for a starter.

    So, in summary, he had 3 very bad games, about 4 average games, about 4 good games and about 5 great games. In about 25 minutes per game in the playoffs, he scored in double digits in 9/16 games. He had 7 or more rebounds in 10/16. 6 games with multiple assists. And overall, he was +3 while on the court in the playoffs. His .524 FG% was 2nd to only Jason Maxiell.

    Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't think that he disappeared. I would say that he had a hard time against the quickness of the Bulls, yet he held his own against the true 7 footers.
     
  2. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I guess I'm going to do some nitpicking. Did he offer us any advantage? Yea, he possibly held his own, but wouldn't we rather have someone to give us something extra?
     
  3. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Billups was on the Jim Rome show last night. CB said that CWebb was given a bad rap about the Pistons failures in the playoff. He said the entire team played poorly, including himself. Billups said that Webber made the entire team better.

    I'm not necessarily saying that I want Webber back. Billups just talked very positively about him last night.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He was + in 11 out of the 16 games. So, he was 11-5 when he could do something about it. He was 4-0 against the Magic, 3-3 against the Bulls, and 4-2 against Cleveland. When he went to the bench and Dyess/Maxiell came in, then he was just as much to blame as we were.

    I think the real problem was that he should have been holding up the bench unit with his rebounding, high % shooting, and passing skills.

    If you're real concern is that picking up Webber will result in limited minutes for Amir, then I totally hear ya. Ideally, the coach could find a way to make it work... but we don't have an ideal coach.

    10-15 mpg for Webber in the playoffs off the bench would be cool with me, depending on the match-up. Against certain teams, he should probably not play much at all.
     
  5. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Billups has too much class to slam another person in public.

    :hoops:
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Webber was truly playing poorly, then why didn't Flip go with Dyess as a starter? We had more big man depth last year than we do right now.

    He could have simply started Dyess. Then he could have brought Dale Davis and Maxiell off the bench.
     
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    He did go public with complaints about Webber having the ball in his hands too much when he first came on board (and was playing exceptionally well).
     
  8. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    You can't just change roles at the end of season. Dice surely wasn't ready for starting spot at C. It's very comfortable for fans blame somebody, who is "foreigner" in that team. Actually all team played badly( in cleveland series) and claim that CWebb just didn't live up the hype, is just ridiculous.
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    THANK YOU Tashawn!

    I have struggled to understand the criticism of Webber. We got an older vet for PEANUTS, yet everyone was outraged that he wasn't averaging a triple double. I feel like he got an unfair bad rap, and I'm glad to see the numbers support that view. Great post!
     
  10. Mrcina

    Mrcina First Round Draft Pick

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    "#8- 17 min/ 0 pts/ 1 reb/ 1 ast/ -16 Horrendous (Bresec-esque)"

    ...maybe this is a little to hard - even Muhammad doesn't look so Flipperesque anymore...:)
     
  11. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Yes, yes he did.

    He had a couple monster games early in series and then disappeared completely on O and got obliterated on D.

    the double digit minuses on the +/-'s tell you something.

    He had lots of chances to step way up and didn't.

    He's a false production player, he gets a lot done early in series and early in games, but he is by far the least clutch player I've ever seen. He hit the one shot vs Cleveland when LeBron went off, but naturally that went for naught.

    He was so bad on D he could barely even get mins even after Dyess got booted in game 5...


    The Stats lie in this instance.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You know, after looking over Dyess's production, I think he was worse than Webber.

    Points: 5, 9, 4, 4, 6, 5, 3, 5, 12, 5, 2, 4, 8, 12, 2, 7.

    Rebounding was solid, but scoring was terrible. He had a few 2-10 shooting performances. Overall, his .501 regular season shooting percentage dropped to .349 in the playoffs.

    Detroit Pistons NBA stats and data from 82games.com

    75% of Dyess's shots were low percentage J's, while Webber only took 29% J's. Webber shot .607 in the paint.
     
  13. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thanks for dredging that back up. I'd nearly forgotten all those jumpers from Dyess bouncing off the rim.

    I guess you never really forget. It just seems like yesterday that ball was rolling through Billy Buckner's legs.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If the headlines are to be believed, then Webber is going to Golden State, which is a little sad. Not that they aren't good, just that Webber is going to go play for the prorated minimum for a team that isn't his first choice for a coach that he previously had a falling out with. If they had a chance of winning the Title, it wouldn't be so bad, but what are their odds? 2% maybe? Why would he crawl back there and come off the bench for that?

    Anyway, if that is a given, then I guess the question becomes, do we need a Dale Davis (or similar) insurance big man for the playoffs?

    Are we totally cool with 4 power forwards + Bresec + Samb?
     
  15. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I saw this story on NBA TV and I am a little sad we could not sign him for at least 8-10 mins a game. But alas I would rather see him help a team in the west as opposed to the east.

    Not sure if anybody else is out there FA wise, but I don't think Bresec is not what Joe or Flip are looking for so we need to package him with Fabio or Jr for someone who can play defense when Dice takes the night off. AJ will get his chance to improve which is good. I say if Joe doesn't pull the trigger by the deadline, then lets get Samb dressed for some real game PT and moved Primo to the 3 piece suit.
     
  16. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    Not that I disagree (I'd take Elden Campbell back @ 85 years old), but for what matchup do we need another big?

    Duncan? Howard? Shaq? Yao? We might play 1 of those 4.
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Especially if we don't have a backup big man.


    We could potentially play against Howard, Ilgauskas, and Ming/Duncan/Amare/Chandler/Aldridge/ or even... CWebb!
     
  18. st8ofmind

    st8ofmind Bench Warmer

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    In bold are the guys that Sheed or Dyess can't do an adequate job on, and underlined are they can't exploit enough to offset it on the other end.

    I'm not concerned at all. Z and Ming are jumpshooters for the most part anyways and I don't see the rockets even making the western conf semi's anyways...

    You can sign me to 10 day if we need to check CWebb. I'm the same size, 30lbs overweight, and can't jump a 1/4 inch either.
     

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