Detroit Draft Talk

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by G-man, May 12, 2009.

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  1. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Hey Ernie..
    Here's a couple ranking sites, there's about a dozen decent ones out there but it looks like they mostly knock eachother off when it comes to analysis.

    NBA-Draft
    http://www.nba-draft.com/Rankings.html

    DraftExpress has a decent rankings by position link
    http://www.draftexpress.com/

    Another interesting site. This cat Michael Schottey” is an team analyst and writer for Draft Tek. According to the info area he’s “responsible for setting team needs for the Lions, Packers and Chargers during the NFL draft season" (oops that might not work in his favor).

    In here he applies his same approach to b-ball. (det will like this one as he has Mullins landing in Motown)
    http://www.drafttek.com/NBAMockhome.asp

    Here's another interesting list of players that no GM genius thought worthy of their pick. “Undrafted Gems 1970-2002"
    http://www.thedraftreview.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=5&id=137&Itemid=125&limit=50&limitstart=0
     
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think we should concentrate on the 6'8 twingers (Johnson-Blair) who at 15 will be a little more polished than Max and Amir were when they were selected and look for a bigger guy in the FA market. If you can't get Thabeet, then I would wait and look at the other 6'10+ guys at those last two second roud picks
     
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Thanks G-Man, I can see why Detteam likes Mullens when I read the first line of his bio.

    DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: B.J. Mullens, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    Anyone think it is a bad sign that there hasn't been one mention of last years draft bonanza playing for the Pistons this year despite the fact that it looks like they're rebuilding?
     
  4. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    SF Sleeper Austin Daye

    This guy Austin Daye is pretty interesting. He's 6"10, 190 but can really shoot the ball. He's got just two years of college ball under his belt but has good pedigree. After he puts on some weight he could play between the 3/4 spots. Has a great outside shot.

    Draft Depot: Gonzaga SF Austin Daye Video - An NBA Draft Site

    Nice SI Article on him here;

    Gonzaga draft prospect Austin Daye learned game from NBA father - Ian Thomsen - SI.com

    Draft Express Profile

    DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Austin Daye, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook
     
  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: SF Sleeper Austin Daye

    I like him G-man....I am just concerned about how long it would take him to gain the 40-50 lbs that he needs. At the 15th pick, the Pistons need a player who can step right in and play, not another Chiek Samb, Walter Sharpe, Amir Johnson or Darko project who sits in the back row trying to gain weight or experience.

    But he does have that pedigree in him with his father being a former NBA player, so if all of the other swingman that Joe has in mind are gone and this dude's stock has risen, then I say take him.....but if he does get his other man at 15 and Daye is still on the board when it is time to take the second pick, then by all means take him then.


    Hey this is Post # 5000!!!
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Re: SF Sleeper Austin Daye


    Where's Darth Tater when you need him...:)
     
  7. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: SF Sleeper Austin Daye

    :gaah::laugh:
     
  8. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    More food for thought, Chase this....

    To me Dejaun Blair looks like an undersized project, really a slightly smaller Maxiel. I don't get that as a move unless Dumars is moving Maxiel and looking for a clone as bench replacement. There are better players available that would make more sense at the #15. But Dumars has made some boneheadedly frustrating early picks in the past (White, Cleaves, Dinko) so nothing would amaze me..

    I don't think he uses 4 picks in this draft. It's too many and it's a waste of what might better be used to buttress a future draft. Trading away at least 1 pick in the 2nd round (likely the #39) or both the #39 & 44 wouldn't be surprising.

    The 2 positions in the draft where we can best obtain a floor ready player seem to be Point and Small Forward. As others have noted Dumars own recent comment about Stuckey being a combo guard is pretty telling.

    I know a lot of guys like Bynum. I like him too. I like him coming off the bench since he seems to like looking for his own shot first. Plus he's undersized and I can't see him as a long-term starter at 5"10. He looks likes he's got more Vinnie in him than C-note.

    At SF there are two guys that could likely come in and likely play some productive minutes because they can score from around the floor and because I think Tay is headed west. James Johnson @ 6"8 from Wake Forest (sophmore) is the #15 pick according to Draftnet. His links are noted a couple places already in this thread. He looks like a nice 3 that could be groomed.

    Another guy that should be available who also looks really interesting cause he's skilled is Chase Budinger @ 6"7 from Arizona (Junior). Depending upon the site visited he's listed as a 2, 3 or swing player.
    He's also a volleyball player and is reputed to have great hands.
    We might even be able to trade down a couple spots to take him.

    DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Chase Budinger, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    This is a year old; YouTube - NBA Draft 2008 Pick : Chase Budinger

    Here's an AZ highlights tape also a year old; YouTube - GOAZCATS.com Chase Budinger Pickup Highlight Reel
     
  9. bmill

    bmill First Round Draft Pick

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    I know he probably won't fall to us but some mocks have Tyreke Evans falling to our pick at 15 and if by chance he did, i really think we should take him and sign Ben Gordon. Evans is very good and talented and can play point guard, so we would have a future 3 guard rotation of Stuck, Ben, and Tyreke. Ben wouldn't really be a complete defensive liability anymore with 2 6'5''-6'6'' point guards. I've read on some site that he has a 7'3" wingspan so Tyreke Evans could guard 3's with a little extra weight put on. Stuck and Tyreke would compliment Ben very well offensively. And if your wondering about Rip, I'd say he'd be moved for a big, whether it be Bosh, Thabeet, Amare, whoever we could get that is going to make an impact. We've seen that Rip just doesn't play well with slashing combo guards in A.I. and Stuck, he needs a true point guard. I know that was long but I a strong opinion on it if your can't read the whole thing.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Never apologize for the length of your posts. That was a good one! :thumb:
     
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    G-Man, I like James Johnson over Blair and agree that the latter reminds me of Max as it relates to size. We need rebounding and the only thing we ever got out of Max was the occasional D, and the thunder dunk to excite the home crowd.

    If Blair is another Max clone then go with Johnson or Daye....unless of course we are able to trade up and get a better player that fills our needs.
     
  12. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Point Taken..

    As is fairly normal the draft class of 2009 is strong on forwards and guards. Both are positions Detroit is looking to buttress. With 4 picks it's likely one or more may get traded. What the multiple picks could be used for is to move up a couple slots or used with an existing player in a trade scenario. Or depending upon the players available it may make sense to add a future pick from another team by moving down a couple slots.

    I don't think it's likely Dumars would use four picks just to take marginal guys late and stick them in the NBDL. There will plenty of marginal guys that don't get picked that we can sign and roster out to the NBDL.

    It probably makes more sense to trade the later picks in this draft for future picks in future drafts - than use them now, just to use them. Dumars isn't likely going to put 4 or even 3 rookies on his Pistons bench.
    The picks aren't low enough to harvest multiple floor ready players.

    Now maybe he figures out a way to work some magic by trading an existing player in tandem with a pick or picks and grab someone in the top 3 but I don't see it happening (Griffin, Rubio & Thabeet). The first three guys in the draft are the cream (though I personally have some doubts about Thabeet) and after that you could probably put the next 8 in a blender and not see much difference.

    There are a bevy of Points available, but of those there are some height challenges tough to overcome (Jennings, Curry, Lawson, Mills). Also a number of them are described by most analysts as possible combo guards in their game mentality. Really saying they're short 2 guards with decent handles, some potential and closing problems (Teague, Holiday, Douglas).

    With Rubio being in a class by himself, there are a couple true Points coming out that are worth watching at #15 or may make sense to drop back a couple slots to tag. Additionally with the firecracker Bynum already on the roster as a change-up it would only seem to make sense to take a guard with some height. Most of the PG's this year are roughly at 6".

    My take, trade the house for Rubio.

    Go SF at #15.

    Then trade a pick and move up to see if they can corral the UCLA Senior PG Darren Collison. He's 6'0 but a true Point with 4 years at a big school in a decent conference. He's got a quick release and is flat out deadly from beyond the arc. Stick this sleeper guy in the NBDL for a season.

    Darren Collison | NBADraft.net

    YouTube - DARREN COLLISON UCLA 07-08 HIGHLIGHTS

    YouTube - DARREN COLLISON BRAKING ANKLES AND DROPPING DIMES (ETIWANDA HIGH SCHOOL FOOTAGE)

    YouTube - Darren Collison practicing 3 ptrs before UCLA vs CAL 3/08/08

    YouTube - DARREN COLLISON DRAINING 3'S FROM EVERYWHERE (ETIWANDA HIGH SCHOOL FOOTAGE)

    That's it, I think Flynn, Lawson, Price & Jerels look too iffy for a myriad of reasons.
     
  13. KP

    KP First Round Draft Pick

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    I have to admit that although I look at a lot of mock drafts, I don't watch a lot of college basketball. So my opinions are mostly based on writeups rather than having actually watched a guy play the game.

    Having said that, what I read about DeJuan Blair doesn't lead me to conclude that he's a Maxiell clone. Here are the similarities, similar height, wingspan, weight, same undersized power forward position. Hey, maybe they are clones afterall.

    Here are some differences. Max is an explosive finisher, a shot blocker, and solid pick and roll defender. Blair isn't any of those things. Max has had to be challenged by the coaching staff to become a better rebounder. Blair in two years of college ball has been a dominant rebounder and could be one of the best in the business at the next level as well. Max has a decent midrange jumper, but generates very little offense from the post. Blair is the opposite, doing most of his damage from the post. Blair also has good court sense and passing skills. Max is a black hole.

    Bottom line, I don't think we can dimiss this guy as an option with our first round pick. Yeah, the draft is a bit deeper at the 1 and 3 spots; but we're not hurting for talent at those spots as much as we are at the 4 and 5.

    If you draft a 1 or a 3 in the first round, I think it requires that you do an even bigger overhaul to your roster than you already face. My opinion is that Joe dosen't want to do it that way.
     
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Does Joe D. ever draft who we think he is going to draft or who we want him to draft?

    I can't think of a time offhand when he did.

    So we can speculate all we like. It may be thought provoking and possibly entertaining, but essentially it gives us no clues as to who will be handed the Piston jersey and cap on draft day.
     
  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I think that Stucky was sort of a consensus pick. Is there someone else that everyone was calling for at that time?
     
  16. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Hey KP.

    Take a read on Maxiells scouting report coming into the 2005 draft, it's half way down the page dated March 29, 2005.

    DraftExpressProfile: Jason Maxiell, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    The reason I personally haven't highlighted many 4's or 5's is the draft pickings are pretty slim. Most of the college 4's are nba sized 3's or tweeners.

    Draft Express has 4 PFs listed in the 1-15 spots, (that includes the #1 pick, 6"10 250lb Blake Griffin who will probably end up at center, leaving 3).

    The 3 are the poor shooting 6'10 235lb Jordan Hill whose described best by using the words "upside & potential" and he's slotted at the #4 spot in the draft!

    DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: Jordan Hill, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    Next is the 6'9 220lb Earl Clark. Described as a "perimeter oriented player" with bad handles. He's currently slotted at the 12 spot.

    Then you have Dejaun Blair who is variously identified at both PF & C but is only 6'7. He a space taker at 265lbs. Draft Express has Detroit taking him at the #15. Blair was one of the better PF's in college but his defensive game needs work and he doesn't have great vertical hops.
    In the NBA, 6'7 is an undersized PF at best. If he's vertically challenged he's going to get his inside shots blocked. Read this analysis that comes after the interview;

    DraftExpress NBA Draft Prospect Profile: DeJuan Blair, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

    There are some experienced frontcourt guys that Dumars will make a push for via free agency or trade. I've been highlighting the 1 and 3 spots in the draft because that's where the talent is thickest meaning a greater likelyhood we get someone who can put some rubber on the road as a rookie. We need 3 point help and inside help.

    Our #15 spot in the draft offers some immediate relief on getting some 3-point help but not much at the 4 or 5. Certainly not more than we get in the open market and no one that can come in and outplay Kwame Brown and that pretty much says it all.

    I think the sleeper is Tyler Hansbrough. He's a workhorse and I think he's going to get minutes on the floor wherever he ends up. My guess is he moves up into the top 12 after some workouts.

    I'm rationally looking at the talent available and our slot. Dumars has taken alot of guys with 'upside & potential" over the last 8 years, Rodney Stuckey, Walter Sharpe, Trent Plaisted, Deron Washington, Arron Afflao, Sammy Meija, Will Blalock, Cheick Samb, Jason Maxiell, Alex Acker, Amir Johnson, Dinko, Rodney White, Mateen, Carlos Delfino, Andreas Gliniadakis & Rickey Paulding.

    How many of those guys have made a difference? How many can anyone say were the difference in winning 5 games in a season? How about 3 games? 2 games?

    That list of guys has 3 currently rostered players in it that look like they have some NBA game. Stuckey as a starter, Maxiell & Afflao as role players so far. The rest have cost the team millions of dollars in the accum and they have made no difference at all.

    Only 2 guys we've drafted that have personally stepped up and won us meaningful games since Dumars has been at the helm are Tay & Mehmet Okur.

    That's the reality. It's the difference between being very good in college but marginal at best against bonafide NBA talent. I'm thinking we need the most talented, floor ready player available at the #15 regardless of his position on the floor. I personally doubt that's Dejuan. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong...:)
     
  17. KP

    KP First Round Draft Pick

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    G-man - thanks for your comments, I enjoy talking about the draft.

    Yes, I'm with you on your entire post, especially the last bit that I've quoted here. My concern with picking a 1 or 3 is that there is no "floor time" available at those positions - unless you overhaul your entire roster to accomodate a #15 pick. I just don't know if that's the best way to build a successful roster - unless this guy is viewed as a backup, like Afflalo.

    We used to be in a position where we could draft a player with potential and attempt to "develop" him. We're no longer in that position. We need, as you say, floor ready players - now.

    Maybe it just makes me too tired thinking about all the other moves you'd have make involving Stuckey, Rip, and Tay to integrate another 1 or 3. Can we really get equal or greater value for these guys? It's easier on my brain to add the most floor ready big via the draft, and I think Blair's got to be on that list - if for no other reason than his rebounding ability. And I suspect that the three 2nd tier bigs that you mention would have a hard time handling Blair in the post despite the fact that they're taller.

    But, like you, I'd love to be wrong. Joe, go get us an All-Star sleeper 1 or 3 at pick #15.
     
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I thought Nick Young and someone else. I could be wrong.

    Yeah, IIRC there were rumors that Stuckey was Dumars man. I'm not sure that he was a consensus pick though. I could be wrong again on this too.
     
  19. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    Yes indeed. There was Nick Young and Acie Law. I don't rememer any talk of Rodney until he was drafted.
     
  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Thanks for providing us with the draft write ups G-Man. As KP pointed out this is probably the first time since the Darko Debacle Draft that we really need to look at whom is out there and select accordingly...

    The selection needs to be an impact player, more so that Stuckey was IMO to setup this team for the next 3-5 years. The front court is where we seem to be lacking with viable post up players and rebounding. Dice and Sheed may or may not be on their way out and even if they stick around, their best days are behind them. The other three big men have not panned out to make a significant impact and even Tay seems to have lost his swagger.

    We are abundant at the guard positions, and even though the positions need to be tweaked, I am thinking the we need to concentrate using that the # 15 on a Sf or PF that can replaced our old vets and/or upgrade our underachieving/overestimated potential young forwards.
     
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