David Ortiz used PEDs

Discussion in 'Football, Baseball, and Hockey' started by Latinoking90, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/31/sports/baseball/31doping.html?_r=2&ref=sports

    Talk about Christmas in July. Literally.

    David Ortiz: Steroid users should get one-year suspension - ESPN


    What a two-faced person. From a guy saying that they should ban players if they used it for an year. I guess he wants to be the first one. Oh wait he used it when the Sox broke the Curse.
     
  2. HarryFWong

    HarryFWong First Round Draft Pick

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    shocking.

    lets make it interesting and add Magglio Ordonez to that list. \
     
  3. Blue

    Blue First Round Draft Pick

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    It seems to me like names are going to keep leaking out of this list that was supposed to be anonymous. It'll be hard the move on from the steroid era if 2 new names are released from this list (of 103 names) every few months. The players would have never consented to the test if they could forsee these shenanigens going on.

    I personally don't want to beat up Ortiz over this, because so many other guys were using. he's just one name out of 103.

    I also don't think it invalidates the Red Sox 'ship in any way because chances are all of the play-off teams that they competed against had steroid users as well. In fact I would say that likely every team had several guys that used.

    Ortiz will likely be in the Hall of Shame instead of Hall of Fame because of this, while other guys that played in his era who were users will make it so long as their name was not leaked.

    I guess in my opinion they should release the whole list and be done with it.
     
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Ortiz just doesn't seem that big...to have used PEDs
     
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Perhaps you just haven't seen Big Papi lately....

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Looks like a blockage problem to me...
     
  7. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    That's some funny stuff. :pound: Is that George Lopez?
     
  8. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    I think the Red Sucks Championship should be invalidated cause the teams from Boston. I hate Boston. I hate their harbor. I hate their Boston Baked Beans. I hate their basketball team and I think Red Auerbach was a walking talking turd. But- I've always hated Johnny Most the most with a passion.

    Watch this 2 minutes.. YouTube - Legendary Celtics' Johnny Most blasting the Detroit Pistons

    I agree with publishing the complete list at once to lessen the political implications of selective player release.
     
  9. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    David who?
     
  10. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Definitely believe the whole list should be published now and everyone outed.

    That way all of the tainted W/S championship teams from the past 9 years can be put into one category (if they had at least 2 PED user on the team during the year and this will be called the Decade of Cheats.

    We can start fresh next year knowing who are the users and know that a team won the series w/o any steroid users on their team.
     
  11. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    just wondering how good basketball would be if players used steroids like baseballers... Shaq would dunked an entire building down!!:pound:
     
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Isn't it kind of funny how you're a scumbag if you use amphetamines now, but it you took them in the 60's you were just a ball player?
     
  13. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Blame BALCO?

    +1 I agree. I already had my laugh (Thank You Big Juicy), but seriously these leaks are now getting annoying.
     
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Indeed.
     
  15. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Weed & Speed

    The guys eating speed in the 60's didn't alter the landscape of the game the same way steroids have impacted the game. Eating speed on a regular basis makes you lose weight, not gain muscle mass. Guys ate speed cause they partied hardy the night before and needed to "get-up" to perform at all. Though speed in general is not considered a performance enhancer unless you're performing in a talk-a-thon, knockin down a case of Busch, drivin a big rig in a race cross country or smokin some fiendish weed.

    In general, during the 60's we had fewer teams so you didn't have the talent dilution we see today. It was a pitchers game and it featured hitters, not home run derbys. Fewer teams meant a greater number of teams had superior pitchers on their rosters. As an example in the AL in 1960 Mickey Mantle was top dog with 40 HR's, behind him, only 4 other guys even hit in the 30's, Roger Maris 39, Jim Lemon 38, Rocky Colavito 35 and Harmom Killebrew 31. The great Ted Williams only knocked out 29!

    Todays game features a lot of fairly crappy pitchers, i.e. more hit-able balls are crossing the plate at the same time more muscled up players are whacking at it. Combine that with a number of other factors, like much improved emphasis on weight training (something that was believed a detriment to your game in the 60's), better training equipment in general, nutrition & diet experts on almost every teams payroll and a whole cadre of both team & personal trainers.

    Now throw in tiny ballfields designed to keep the high-maintenence low-attention span fan's cheeks in the seats and you have a recipe for one kind'a record - "homeruns". So yes they have come down on steroid users in recent years in part because they have distilled the whole game down to homerun hitters and that's where the legacy of steroid abuse is so obvious.

    The PR end is it makes nearly 80's worth of baseball records defunct. How to compare the heavy hitting Harmon Killebrew of his day to todays beefed up players? There was no bigger slugger during the 1960s than Harmon Killebrew. In the 1960's Killebrew knocked out 40 homers and 100+ RBI six times. In today's game that wouldn't be that big of a deal.

    In Detroit Cecil Fielder hit for 51 in 1990, 44 in 1991, 35 in 1992, 30 in 1993, 31 in 1995 and 39 for Toronto in 1996. Kirk Gibson hit 27 in 1984, 29 in 1985, 28 in 1986 and 24 in 1987. Darrell Evans played 20 years in the majors, hit 41 in 1973 for Atlanta and 40 for Detroit in 1985, other 18 years 34 & 30 in 1987 and 1983 and 16 years of mostly in the teens. These guys were bangers and yet their numbers pale in comparison to what's happened in the record books over the last dozen years.

    Steroid abuse has unfairly tainted the system and many players attached to it and the debate over how to remember the Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, Canseco, Caminiti, Rodriguez, Sosa, Schilling and Palmiero's of the game will never satisfy anyone on either end of the historical spectrum.

    Is it fair?

    Who said life is supposed to be fair?
     
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Weed & Speed

    I don't think the reasons why players used amphetamines changed all that much over the years. The public being made aware of it is what has changed.

    How can you compare ERA and strikeout totals now to when Bob Gibson was throwing off of a 32' mound like he did?

    Steroid usage doesn't bother me. I think it is far worse and worthy an investigation to see if the league and owners juiced the baseballs to juke the stats as was hinted at prior to the steroid revelations.
     
  17. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Re: Weed & Speed

    I agree, that is a separate and equalling disturbing problem.
     
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Re: Weed & Speed

    I think there is a difference in a tell all type book (like Juiced) than being hit over the head by the 'ol time loving moral media.

    The point I am making is how people deride this era of players in favor of the innocent guys of yesteryear when those guys were "cheating" and doing what they could to get ahead to the best of their capabilities at the time.

    Hank Aaron could have been taking speed by the fistfuls for all we know. There was never a thought to testing him.
     
  19. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Re: Weed & Speed

    Now = :yellowprison:
    Then = :rapture:

    It's the American way.
     
  20. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Re: Weed & Speed

    Hitler and his military (not to mention the valiant individuals that fought against them) would have profoundly disagreed with this assessment of Amphetamines and their role on performance enhancement.

    Steroids produce positive results in an ideal environment where training and diet are sound. Eliminate those two factors and steroids do nada. It's the reason so many steroid users at the gym are scrawny kids with attitude problems.

    Amphetamines, on the other hand, can enable a man who has never weight trained in his life to break his handcuffs and beat the snot out of four policemen.

    I call that performance enhancement if there ever was any. They are far more immediate in their method of action, and they provide significant results in the total absence of proper diet and training.
     

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