Away Dallas Mavericks Saturday Dec 1 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Thanks for straightening this out and letting us take part of your deep knowledge and vast experience of coaching and developing NBA players.
  2. raxrets

    raxrets Starter

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    I do not have this particular experience but there is no need to treat coaching and training staff by fans like idiots...fanforums are full of myths how "coach hates X player" or coach holds back developement, etc.

    From fans perspective "this season is lost anyway, throw X rookie in, why minutes for vets" may work, but definitely not from coaching staff perspective.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Missed his assignment? He didn't do that. He just overplayed it. If you watch him on defense, you'll notice that he is one of our most attentive help defenders and he actually alters shots when he gets there. Yanking the top rated defensive player on the team for letting a guy score on him is extremely counterproductive. The most likely outcome will be that he will change his style to a less risky and less effective one in order to stay on the court. LFrank is not looking like a big man coach to me. You can't micromanage a 19 year old battling in the trenches.

    To me, hype is basing it on potential or personal opinion.

    Here are some arguments why it makes sense to ramp up Drummond's minutes from 16.5 to 30ish. I don't care if he starts or not, but he's one of our most impactful players and he only has an impact when he's on the court.

    - Drummond currently has the highest differential between production and opponent production on the team.

    - Our team is one of the worst defensive rebounding teams in the NBA (ranked 24th in terms of defensive rebounding % and 19th in offensive rebounding %). Drummond is 6th in the NBA in rebounding percentage and 3rd in offensive rebounding %. I.e. his biggest strength helps to solve one of the team's biggest weaknesses. How do you keep a 6'11" 250+ lb monster rebounder off the court unless he's killing the team on offense (which he isn't doing since he has the 2nd highest ORat on the team behind Singler)? How do you quantify the effect of this offensive rebounding? When Drummond is on the court vs off the court, the Pistons shoot the exact same eFG% of .477, yet we score 108.1 with Drummond on the court vs 91.2 with him off the court. How can that be? Well, our offensive rebounding rate is 31.9% with him and 23.5% without him. We miss an average of 44 shots per game. So that is the difference between getting 14 offensive rebs vs 10. 4 extra possessions with an eFG% of .477 translates into about 4 points per game. However, in reality, most of his offensive rebounds are putbacks where Drummond has an eFG of almost .700! That makes it closer to 6-7 points per game difference... all from a guy who looks raw on offense. Drummond is only assisted on 37% of his inside baskets, and we've only seen a couple post moves, so the majority are off of offensive boards.

    - We're a below average shot blocking team and we get blocked more than we block them. It's kind of silly that we have a guy who blocks shots at a higher rate than Josh Smith with one of the lowest block per foul ratios of any shot blocker averaging 16 and a half mpg. Drummond's PF rate is lower than Singler or Jerebko.


    Besides parroting the line that he's raw, where is the statistical evidence that subbing in Drummond and increasing his minutes to 30+ would hurt the team? This guy is no Kwame Brown.


    Quit playing scared. Move Monroe to PF and move Krackatov to backup C for limited minutes. Get Monroe and Drummond each over 30mpg and give them about 20mpg of crossover time together to utilize Monroe's passing ability and Drummond's finishing ability.

    This will make it much easier on the other players, including our PGs. If we get beat like that, I can accept it. But losing while limiting one of the most athletic guys to ever where a Pistons uniform to desperately cling to 2nd to last place is part of what makes the Palace an empty gymnasium these days.

    I don't think LF is a bad coach or dumb. I just think that he's being conventional and afraid to lose some control by taking off the training wheels.
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Did anybody complain in the 1st half when we were winning? I think as right now the concerted effort by the "powers that be" to accommodate Rodney Stuckey is the biggest joke right now. The organization just can't seem to grasp tha this guy is a loser and is not a rotation player on many teams in this league, yet we feel obligated to get this guy going because we're the only idiots in the league who believe that the dude can actually ball.
    BallDon'tLie, alexa032 and LA Dre like this.
  5. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    When Rodney and Tay prove they're not worth their last contracts......and shoulda been sent walkin...then JD is history.
  6. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    The NBA is a business & a sport. So it has two aims - winning and satisfying your consumer base.

    And no, the NBA is not about consistent rotation patterns and rock steady minutes. Of course you have ideas about how many minutes a guy plays (e.g Prince gets circa 30mpg), but it could be 25, or it could be 40. You never know until they start playing.

    As for yanking guys not getting it done, well thats exactly what happens. Ever seen Pop, Thibs, Jackson coach? Stink it up and you are on the bench to get your head straight. Every coach worth their salt knows that you play the best combo of players that you have. This includes adjusting in game rotations if it isn't working. If you want to know why Dre isn't playing with Monroe, it ain't because of some consistent minutes rubbish, its because he is needed on the second unit to shore up their defense and keep the unit competitive. That why every time you saw OKC closing out a grind, it was goodbye Harden and hello Sefolosha guarding their perimeter scorer. If it wasn't close, this sub doesn't happen.
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    FREE KRACKATOV!
    linwood likes this.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think there is a lot of truth to that. For Frank to bench Rodney and Tay, he is basically telling Dumars that he screwed up. That would take some courage.
  9. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Here, I made it a little catchier:

    Free Krack!
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  10. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    Time for the Pistons to show some Krack.............
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  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    What's so crazy about instead of worrying about the well being of the second unit the Pistons left Monroe on the floor when Drummond checked in? That would mean taking Charles Barkley Jason Maxiel out of the game but I think they can survive.

    Why can't Monroe play 38-40 minutes like every other good young guy on a bad team?
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If Monore continues to play like he did yesterday, he needs LESS minutes, not MORE.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's played here for 3 years now and has had how many games like that? With this organization you're probably right though. They'll sign PJ Brown and Theo Ratliff someway, somehow.
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    It's okay. We are sandbagging right now....setting up for our next #9 draft pick.
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  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    [BEGINRANT]
    # of rookies that are getting more playing time than Drummond: 16
    Rank in entire NBA rebound %: #6 (behind Reggie Evans, Varejao, Asik, Hickson, and Zach Randolph).
    Rookie rank in FG%: #1
    Rookie rank in blocks/min: #3
    Entire NBA dunks: #20 (with half the time of those ahead)
    PER rank for under 22 years old: #2 (behind Anthony Davis)
    # of teams in the NBA that play their qualified PER leader less than 17 mpg: 1 (the Detroit Pistons).
    # of teams that have a coach with an agenda that does not include winning or developing players for the future: at least 1

    Rookie playing time sampling:
    Lillard: 37.3 mpg, Waiters: 32.0, Davis: 28.3, Beal: 27.7, Rivers: 27.7, Barnes: 27.3, Gilchrist: 27.3, Singler: 27.0, Taylor: 24.8, Sved: 24.4, Valunciunas: 24.1, Zeller: 22.3, Crowder: 20.1, Leonard: 19.1, Sullinger: 18.2, Harkless: 17.8, Ezeli: 16.8

    If the #9 pick were getting the 9th most minutes of rookies, then that would mean that we would have to increase his playing time by more than 50%. Since he's been the 2nd best rookie so far, then maybe he should get the 2nd most minutes, in which case we would have to double his PT.
    [/ENDRANT]


    LISTS AND RANKINGS

    +/- on the Pistons in 2012-2013
    #1) Villanueva: +17 (limited minutes)
    2) Singler: -3
    3) Drummond: -4
    4) English: -7 (limited minutes)
    5) Maxiell: -9
    6) Maggette: -11 (limited minutes)
    7) Knight: -30
    8) Bynum: -39
    9) Prince: -50
    10) Monroe: -65
    11) Jerebko: -71 (in fairly limited minutes... good call yanking him)
    12) Stuckey: -82

    Singler, Drummond, and Maxiell are all pretty solid in this measure. Stuckey and Jerebko have been stinking up the joint.

    Monroe's eFG% has sunk to #9 on the team due to some awfully inefficient performances lately. He is less efficient than: Daye, Singler, Drummond, Villanueva, English, Maxiell, Knight, and Prince. However, he attempts the most field goals on the team. That might be a reason for his worse than expected +/-. The Dallas announces made a comment like "if Monroe is your go-to guy on offense, you're in trouble". Similarly, he has the 9th best FT% on the team but attempts the most free throws. Monroe takes a third of his shot attempts from outside the paint and has a Stuckey-like .274 shooting percentage from there (compared to Stuckey's .273 average). Maxiell shoots almost twice as well.

    PER ranking on the Pistons in 2012-2013
    #1) Drummond- 19.6
    2) Monroe- 18.6
    3) Maxiell- 13.6
    4) Prince- 13.3
    5) Singler- 13.1
    6) Knight- 13.0 (mason dixon line of suckitude)
    7) Stuckey- 10.8 (asked to be moved to the bench)
    8) Jerebko- 10.7 (recently yanked from rotation)
    9) Bynum- 10.1 (recently yanked from rotation)
    10) Maggette- 7.5 (why is this guy getting minutes?)

    * Daye, Middleton, Villanueva, English, and Kractov have not been played enough minutes this year to tell if they are all-stars or D-leaguers.


    The coach obviously can't evaluate players in practice or else he never would have played Jerebko and Stuckey such heavy minutes so far this season. The answer is that you have to evaluate players in in-game situations. So, let's start evaluating our scrap heap of draft picks, foreigners, prized FA signings, and boot camp graduates.
    Mogilny, Nemo and Slippy like this.
  16. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Now THIS is how you do nerd-rage!
  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    RELEASE THE KRACKATOV!!!!
    [​IMG]
    basketbills likes this.
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is some great work. I've never been a stat guy, but you're winning me over.
  19. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Be nice.
  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    JIMMMMMMERRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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