Away Dallas Mavericks Saturday Dec 1 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    at Dallas Mavericks

    Saturday Dec 1 2012 - 9:00 PM EST


    American Airlines Center, Dallas, TX

    TV: FS Detroit Plus

    RADIO: 97.1FM

    GO PISTONS!
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  3. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    Dallas at 7-9! Like the Pistons, they used to win 50 per season regularly.
    I don't see this as a big game. I want us to compete in our division first.

    At Dallas...........so the Cowboys by 7.
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  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Pistons by 9.
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  5. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    This could get ugly. Dallas is looking for a win and we just played a tough grind it out game last night. Not expecting good games from Monroe, Singler, Tay or Maxiel. However if we can pull this one out it would be huge.
  6. Pistons0809

    Pistons0809 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    "Rodney Stuckey, it seems, plays very well against Dallas." - George Blaha

    Averaging nearly 21 points per game and shooting a sizzling 57% in four competitions, look for the young star to continue to add to the torments of the Dallas Mavericks.

    In other news, new acquisition Derek Fisher is in the starting lineup for the Mavericks per the Meijer starting lineup report.
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  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    This team is mentally frail.
    Villanueva didn't lose this game but 0-5 and getting out hustled and scored over is not rotation material in my book. Put Daye in. Kravstov. English. Maggette can sit out too. Also for all the hustle plays Drummond had he makes one mistake and he's out. Monroe's entire game was one long blooper reel.
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Mavs were struggling in the mist of a three game losing streak, including a 30 pt loss to the Lakers. We had their number in the first half, but failed to put them away when we were up 44-33 midway thru the second and settled for 6 pt half time lead. They extended the lead back to 51-42 to to open the third, but afterwards the Mavs chipped away and then finally blew by tired Pistons once OJ Mayo got hot.

    Mayo outscored the Piston 16-11 in the third as the Pistons missed every bunny, layup and long ball imaginable. Moose still seems to rely on wild prayer of a layup instead of going for the high percentage JMax dunk when he is in a funk...

    Second game in row where the Pistons fail to reach 79 points after putting up 117 and 108 on the Suns and Blazers the two prior games. Tonight they scored only 29 points in the second half after struggling to get 33 last night.

    Coaches loss?? Well he can't shoot or play defense, but he left his starters out there too long when the Mavs got ahead by 4 with about 4 and change left. Stuckey came in to hold the Mayo, but everybody else was left in and they continued to look lethargic on offense and by the time Frank decided to sub again, it was a 7 pt lead heading towards 10. The subs unfortunately did no better, but still they probably should have been brought in before the roof caved in.

    Nothing more to say other than at least they looked more competitive yesterday vs the Grizzlies in the second half than they did tonight.
  9. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    That sucked so bad I almost wish I'd missed it. We're really a horrible road team.

    Greg - he was really bad. He was taking shots 5 feet from the basket and managed to miss 13 of 17, and it killed us. Without an inside presence, it was all jump shots all day, and we were missing those too. He did a good job on the rebounding end, though. But he also coughed it up on consecutive possessions in the fourth, one of which came when he pulled a Daye and turned the ball over at half court all by himself, though the game was pretty much over by then.

    Brandon - started out great, but seemed to catch the bricking bug after halftime. He also had more turnovers than assists for the second consecutive game, though he wasn't as bad as last game with only one more turnover as opposed to 0:6 last night.

    Kyle - he was decent on offense, but fell off on the defensive end after halftime, perhaps feeling the effects of the heavy minutes from last night. It was a game to forget for him.

    Max - solid. He outplayed Greg for perhaps the first time this season.

    Rodney - had a solid assist line, but didn't help his FG% much more than he did last night, going 4 for 11 from the floor in 28 minutes. A bad 3 point shooter like him should probably stop hoisting those up too.

    Andre - played well to begin with, but like everyone else, seemed a step slow on defense in the second half, allowing Dallas' players easy shots at the rim. This kid has some moves; if he can refine those, watch out.

    BoT reverted to his usual BoT form, jacking and missing shots and being a sieve on defense.

    Corey was a non-factor.

    Coach Frank - he's found a rotation that more or less works, but the guys were just missing shots and letting that affect them on the other end. I don't know what he could've done to stop the bleeding, but it didn't look like he did anything. I still wish he'd play Greg and Andre together more often too.

    Bad game, but it's expected for a young team that has historically been bad on the road. Back to the Palace to face the Kyrie-less Cavs - hopefully some home cooking helps.

    P.S. - Mayo's gun thing after 3 is hella annoying. Vince Carter is just plain annoying; perhaps a residue from his nets days.
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  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    We started out not being able to clear the defensive glass. So even though JMAX had not too bad a game, our front line really did not work for this game.

    Coach again goes to a backcourt of Stuckey and Knight, which is a loser so much of the season, what, to lose. Don't complain about execution of your team when you put non-sense out as a unit.

    Our starting unit did not break even to start the game. We were down 3 when Singler came out. Well, first time for everything. But we still finished the quarter with a slight lead - so we have yet to really see that starting unit bomb to start a game.

    Maggette is in no shape to play any defense, so he should not be playing. And CV, too many coaches have already fallen into the trap of letting CV play because upon occasion he cans a few threes. Last sesason, not playing CV was one of the few things coach did right. (Having JMAX's minutes in the right distribution was another.) Now he is backsliding on that one. And it makes for anything but Piston basketball. Us Piston fans are particular. If you can't play defense, we know it, and do not appreciate a coach who plays such players.

    Another game of not pairing up Monroe and Drummond. Another loss. That does not get us anywhere.

    Singler looked bad in the 2nd half. But it was not necessarily Singler who was causing the hot shooting of Mayo. Fact is, Singler was called on to help inside a bit too much - to compensate for not having bigs that can handle their own business.

    Note to Prince. If Singler, a solid 3 point shooter, hits a shot from beyond the arc, it does not mean you have to try to match him. Not your game. Your job, when Singler is on the floor, is to drive in and try to create another ourtside shot for Singler.

    Turnover itus again hurt us. A lot. But then again, trying too hard, because the coach has not played players who can play, is only human. Won't excuse the turns, but I will understand them.

    A lot of poor defense was hidden in the first half because we got both Mayo and Kaman in early foul trouble. Not so lucky in the 2nd half.

    I think both Monroe and JMAX just missed double doubles. Enough rebounds, but maybe just short on the points. I have not looked at the boxscore.

    2nd game where Coach is subbing such that Stuckey is running the 1st unit some.

    Singler is being asked to both start at shooting guard, and be Tay's backup. That is a lot. Not a bad idea to get English or Middleton in the rotation. (Even if it would threaten coach's agenda about playing Maggette a bunch of minutes, as if better, far better, defenders who can also shoot the ball are not available.)

    And if English works out at shooting guard, Singler should take Tay's spot as starting small forward. Is that what coach is afraid of?

    If Dumars wants wins, dump guys like CV and Bynum, and never again give your coach the opportunity to play sub-par players. And if you want to trade an expiring contract - make sure the coach knows a guy like Maggette is only here for that, not to actually play when he can't play defense.

    Hopefully we will have better luck next time.
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  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't think you can fault the effort tonight. This was another grind it out type game and it got to the Pistons eventually.

    The Pistons rotation is more like 2 distinct units. There is no interchangerableness to it. Andre Drummond restricts Lawrence Frank for some reason.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Drummond played 12 minutes, had 4 rebs, made his only shot, dished out 2 assists with no turnovers, volley ball spiked a Dallas shot attempt and was our leading +/- player (tied with Stuckey) at +1 for the game. He overplays a defensive assignment for the 2nd time in the game and gets immediately yanked. He would have been much better off staying between the Mav and the basket and letting them easily score over him to escape the coach's scorn. Btw, when Drummond gets inserted with Stuckey, Maggette, Prince/Singler, and Villanueva, what is he supposed to do other than play garbage man? Nobody passes or plays the pick and roll with him. Just a bunch of chuckers with a random spray of long rebounds.

    Meanwhile Monroe sits at -17, misses more than a dozen shots from point blank range, gets blocked 5 times rather roughly, only gets to the line for 1 FTA, and coughs the ball up repeatedly (box score says 3 times, but I swear it was twice that) while logging 32 minutes. And the bigs that he was going against are not terribly athletic (Kaman and Brand off the bench had 7 blocks, almost exclusively on Monroe). Monroe's 15 rebounds look nice, but 7 were offensive and 4+ of those had to be when he was playing catch with himself off the backboard. He led the team easily in shot attempts and was our 6th leading scorer. Just ugly.

    Maxiell was playing with some heart though and he was the POTG for us I thought.

    Villa failed to do the only thing he's good at and was about as effective as a fathead decal on defense. However, other than miss all his shots, he at least protected the ball.


    Overall, the key stat for me this game was fast break points. We were better on the boards (15 off rebs to 13), we got to the line more (18 FTA to only 8!), turnovers were close (15 to 13 in their favor), and blocked shots were that lobsided (9 to 7)... but fast break points were in Dallas' favor 35-13. That really shouldn't be the case with only a -2 turnover differential. Part of it was that OJ Mayo was lightning fast and was getting great passes to him when he took off, but another part of it was that we missed a boatload of 3-pointers and they were running off them.

    Dallas held us to a lower point total than they have any other opponent this year.

    It was a back to back 3rd quarter meltdown for us where Frank stuck with the starting 5 almost all they way through it. 11 to 25 tonight. Detroit now has the 2nd worst scoring average in the 3rd quarter this year and we are near the bottom in the 1st quarter. We are above average in both the 2nd quarter and the 4th quarter. i.e. our starting 5 is our weakness. Or put another way, the difference in talent/ skill level between our starting 5 and our bench is probably not much.

    Our C position overall is 4th in the league in scoring, 5 in assists, and 4th in rebounding too. Our PF position overall is 24th in scoring, 29th in assists, and 23rd in rebounding. Need to balance these out more, especially considering we have a PF playing C in the starting unit.

    At SF, we are dead last in steals. At SG, we are 26th in points. At PG, we average the 2nd most turnovers.
  13. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    There are times when this team just can't score. Monroe slipped back tonight offensively. Knight was lost in the crucial 3rd quarter. JMax, who played well, couldn't shoot in the 3rd quarter. The coach wouldn't substitute. You could tell the unit just was not going to score. Brick by brick, fumble by fumble.

    I know. Who do you put in? CV, or Stuckey or Magette for offense during that 3rd quarter drought? You have to try something. You have to sense what was happening.

    Still, lack of gamesmanship by the coach does not account for a roster of players who either are too inexperienced to be consistent offensively or veterans that have never been so.

    Play Drummond and Monroe together, pick up a journeyman guard on the cheap for the year and try and play games in the 80s.
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    You guys have the wrong idea of coaching and substitution patterns in the NBA. This isn't High School or even college were you put guys in off the bench because a starter isn't getting the job done. The NBA is all about consistent minutes and rotation patterns, screwing with those things will have you unemployed very fast. I expected this game to go just like it did, the 3rd qtr was sloppy-fatigue, Monroe had even less lift than usual, is that even possible? The boys need a day off, where they watch film, put in some personal work and get ready for Monday against the Cavs. He guys don't get too upset about the loss, we still NEED a lottery pick! Oh, and OJ Mayo will be a free agent this summer.......might just be the SG we need in Piston land, had one heck of a box score tonight.......a real floor spreader!

    While his low number of shot attempts is indicative of him playing within himself, Kyle Singler, he has to find a way to get 10-12 shots per game to really be effective for us.
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  15. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like Monroe but I'd like him a lot more if he'd stop his "AUUUUAAAUAAAAUUUUUGGGHHH" every time he drives and if he could stop whining at the refs instead of hurrying back to play defense every time he misses or doesn't get an and 1.
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  16. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    11 points in the third was just like the 8 point one where Frank seemingly did nothing to try and change the situation. Then when he finally changed the lineup, he gives the new guys on the floor a whole minute and a half to do something - wow thanks coach.

    Then as a result of this late sub he plays that same unit too long in the fourth before bringing the starters back.

    Think he has done a reasonable job in focusing the players on certain areas and we have seen his defence first mantra work exceptionally well in some games, but maybe he just isn't a good in-game coach.

    Also, we are a really inexperienced team already, but I think Maggette has to sit now. Has been good in some games but mostly just woeful and I would rather have the minutes behind Prince played by Singler/JJ with English getting some time at the 2.

    On English, I read on Mlive.com that the reason he isn't getting minutes is because of his defence on Jimmer in that game against Sacramento. This is crazy cause everyone played bad that game and we've seen his impact on D and his good shooting.

    If Slava was dressed for this game it would have been another good opportunity to put him on the floor when Monroe was stinking it, Drummond was out of the coaches favour and BoT was filling up his bucket. But no, instead we had Daye dressed.
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  17. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Probably the worst thing that could have happened was CV getting hot in New York. It gave everyone the impression that we had a bench weapon. Its uncanny how regularly other bigs score over him. Play Kravstov. Also, reinsert JJ but at SF.

    The disappointing thing is that this is probably the identity of the team. In the first 9 games, you could see that there were chemistry issues that needed to be worked out. There may be a few tweaks but we won't see any kind of break out. Prince still dominates the ball but at least movement doesn't stop most of the time and considering Knight needs to improve his ball handling and Monroe needs to develop a reliable 15 footer its ok for now.
    To me, there is something that happens when Stuckey enters the game. This is what I think it is: early on, Knight dominated most of the offensive sets and probed the defenses. That didn't work out too well. What they do now is Knight gives the ball up to Prince or Monroe. Knight, Singler and Prince move well without the ball and make good decisions when the ball gets back to them. Ball movement is crisp, purposeful and the result is entertaining and effective.
    When Stuckey comes in, its usually for Singler. Singler's activity does wonders for the offense even if he never touches the ball. Then add to that, that Stuckey dominates the ball and looks to drive first, pass second. Its subtle but the team seems to stagnate a bit. Add in fatigue and they start reverting to their early season selves. They start putting pressure on individuals to score instead of doing what works, play as a team.

    In the third quarter, you should see a return to their 1st quarter selves but I don't see it.
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Coach knows full well putting Stuckey in for Singler reverts to his failed starting unit from our first string of losses. But remember, he is stubborn beyond all belief, and still refuses to see how bad this unit is. Poor interior D, because JMAX is too short. No shooting guard, so the opposing defense packs it in on us. No fast breaks, cause that is not a strength of Knight. Basically, a unit that should never be asked to play as a unit. Adding Singler, wow, what a difference. They can't pack it in so much - but really we need Tay replaced also as he is no strong 3 point shooter. And JMAX, as much as I like him as a player, needs to come off the bench and be replaced by a rebounder. I have not seen Kravtsov play, so I imagine Drummond is about the only choice at the moment to give us good rebounding and interior defense to start games.

    Start Knight, English, Singler, Monroe, Drummond

    2nd unit: Stuckey, Middleton, JJ, Kravtsov, Macklin (available at the moment.)
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The defense needs to account for Chuckles when he is out there. He is their only ridiculously bad defender so they should be able to withstand that. Maybe they just lack the overall talent to be able to do so.

    I don't have a problem with Max starting, but the Pistons have got to start planning to get Monroe, Knight and Drummond out there together.

    Frank has hot to stop coaching scared.
  20. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    You are her so funny and clueles: first you all admit: X sub did nothing or had not helped anyway, yet you all put blame on the coach "why he did not find a workable solution". NBA is neither fantasy league nor teams are handled "weekly". There simple was not ""it" a nd there is no need to dream on "fantasy stats" from rotting players from at the end of the bench.

    Also drummond is no solution to every problem - there is no need for "amir hype". He missed his assignment - bech him. Thats correct. He needs to learn basics first. And please, save me from your stupid fantasies - by playing, X player learns faster. We have here some teachers in this forum - and one of them had a great input from teaching and learning here. Yet some forumites did not get a point, it seems.

    Sometimes there is no solutinon and by "trying everything possible" - it means there wont be consistency in forseeable future, only chaos.

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