Dallas Jan. 23rd, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'January 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    And when we get a guy with a power forwards body and elite guard skills named LeBron James we can get away with it as well.
    That's your best example?
    There isn't even any congruence considering that they have the best forward on the planet dragging their frontline to victory while getting double digit rebounds almost every time out, while we have Amir Johnson getting double digit fouls if the rules allowed for it.
    And effective is what? Getting rebounds? Preventing offensive putbacks? Scoring points? Did you judge the players performance last night via live feed or espn gamecast like last game?
    Sorry. You'll have to learn to walk on water before you're on any sort of steady ground with me on this point.
    Oh how easily revisionist history erases the old boys club of Chauncey and Rip playing keep away from everyone else on the floor while they occasionally hit Rasheed for heat checks and toss Tayshaun the periodic bone.
    I think you're in denial if you're pretending this wasn't prevalent in years past.
    Once again we're back to Allen, and here I thought we were talking about Curry.
    It would make a more convenient and easy to follow read if you dropped the facade and stuck with the AI hate. It's just downright troublesome to peel back the layers and eventually get to post trade remorse.
    Waitaminute...

    You just said the problem was everyone else not named Amir's defense.
    Then you said "we managed to not let it get away from us defensively."


    I bow to your superior use of the infamous shotgun approach.

    You win.

    Congratulations.
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Wasn't that the point of sacrificing our PG for Allen Iverson? He was supposed to be our superstar that could effectively put the offense on his back.

    KB plays great post defense.

    Amir plays great help defense.

    Dice is a rebounding machine.

    Max is great on offensive put backs and catching passes and finishing in the paint.

    You said that Curry plays Prince at the 4 b/c he's let down by the offensive games of our bigs. That would make sense if Tay could score at the 4. So it would still seem that all those bigs are better options than Tay at the 4.

    Then why do you read my posts and respond to them? Thankfully, being on steady ground with you is not a priority in my life.
    Oh please. That didn't happen nearly as often as people claim.

    Um my problem was specifically the 2nd quarter when Curry replaced Max with a guard and put Tay at the 4. When he did that he put AI in b/c AI had not played for awhile and kept Rip in because he didn't want to offend him since he was playing well. If that wasn't the reason, and you believe he's not placating our players and he thought Tay at the 4 was a good idea then we're in alot more trouble than we thought.
    In my last sentence i'm refferring to the time before we went small and specifically the 1st quarter hence me saying when it was still a game. The game got away from us in the 2nd quarter when Curry went schizo with the lineup and we went small.
    This is reffering to the whole game and our small ball which essentially caused DAL to exploit us at practically every match-up. Hence the part you didn't highlight where i stated Curry's refusal to keep 2 bigs in the game.
     
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    At the very end of the day Chauncey would not help the situation. He is so used to the Pistons players and system that he would of done very well for this team and he would hide Currys weaknesses as a coach. Now that we dont have our PG and some tweaks have to be made we have a guy who has looked clueless for the past 30 or so games.

    Chauncey good only cover that up for so long. The team could only cover that up for so long because there comes a point in the playoffs where the coach can make or break the playoff run. When playoff time rolls around this Pistons team faces teams just as good as them and areas such as coaching comes into play.

    And lp you keep saying its not that much of a stretch to think Chauncey would of done as well this year as in years past well it is. To assume that this team would do just as good when we changed to a rookie coach is absurd. Especially when the only move we made was picking up Kwame Brown. Chauncey admitted it himself that the trade woke him up in a way. It motivated him and the guy has played great, but to expect him to play as good as he has in Denver is insane. He had 6 straight years of tremendous success here. Tell me what was going to light a fire under him to play so well?
     
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    You asked me why i thought the 3 guard line-up would work, i stated b/c i'd seen it in action with the previous year. I also said it's not a reach to say they would be better than what we are seeing now.
    As for the motivation issue i have my own view on that which i'll just leave alone for the sake of not starting a debate about it.
     
  5. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    To quote a guy's response to lpgrl from spurstalk "Was he injured when he let Jason Williams walk all over him in 2006? When he was contained by Larry Hughes in 2007? When he completely disappeared down the stretch of Game 7 in 2005?"

    Chauncey's good, very good, but he is not the reason we are struggling so much. Is the trade a part of the reason? Yes, but there may be 20+ things occurring that has made this team suck for the first half of the season. Changes happen deal with it. Now what I can't deal with is the coaches and team not adjusting to the changes. Sitting there and making the same stupid ass mistakes is what is irritating. Not the trade.
     
  6. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    It's obvious we do not and will not agree.

    I respect your opinion. [sarcasm]Even if you are horrifically wrong.[/sarcasm] :D

    ps- I hope you realize I am partially teasing you in this post. Don't take it too seriously. I'm in a joking mood today.
     
  7. max

    max All-Star

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    If you point fingers to the CB trade everytime we lose a game then you are going to be a very unhappy fan. Either let if go or follow the Nuggets.

    Its going to take more than a dozen games to get a 2nd year PG running the team. CB had his adjustment period in the 1st couple of years.

    Oh yea - Another poorly managed game by Curry.
     
  8. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Chauncey was great here and I always backed him up, but all this whining over him is irritating me. Here are the facts.

    1. He is not coming back here. He had a great run here, but like all great things it came to an end.

    2. Like you said whining over him will make things even more miserable.

    3. The trade was made for TWO reasons: a much needed change and cap space. We will still have that cap space no matter how bad things end up.

    4. And we still have half a season to get things straight. AI has worked his butt off his whole career. This team, talent wise, is the best chance he has had for a championship. I am confident he will keep trying to make it work.

    5. Now the team needs to stop feeling sorry for themselves. We have way too much talent and ability on this team to give in now.
     
  9. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    The Dallas game was entertaining for me. I enjoy watching every Pistons game win or lose. I'm a Pistons fan. I got sick of watching CB and crew roll out with the same starting lineup and play the same way.

    CLE does it? Are you kidding me? That might be a valid argument if Lebron James wasn't on the team. Lebron is stronger then at least half of the PF in the league and he plays SF.
     
  10. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    For real:

    Lebron: 6-8 250; Tayshaun: 6-9 215; Ben Wallace 6-9 240
     
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    LeBron is a freak. He can play every position well. No one else can say that. I think Kobe is still better, but as far as athleticism goes LeBron is at the top.
     
  12. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    I gotta new line-up that will actually stick and be productive...follow me:
    Starters
    Rodney
    Rip
    Tay
    Amir
    Mcdyess
    Bench
    Iverson
    Afflalo
    Hermann
    Rasheed
    Kwame

    Bynum
    Acker
    Sleepy
    Maxiell--Maxiell would sub for both brown and amir-24 minutes

    or trade Kwame/Maxiell both for Jermaine O'neal. Then start Oneal over Amir.
     
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Toronto is looking to ship him I think and we need some bigs. I'd go for that.
     
  14. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Scratch that. Check out JO's contract. We would have to trade a combination of Rip/Tay, Tay/Sheed, Rip/Sheed to get him.
     
  15. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    JO is making over 21 Million this year. Even if you threw in Rip with Kwame and Maxiell, you still don't have enough salary to make it work.

    EDIT: himat beat me by a minute!
     
  16. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    :loser: ....

    just kidding. Seriously though if Toronto gets fed up enough they may just drop him because his contract is so huge. Then we can just swoop in and take him. (Wishful thinking)
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We should just trade AI to Phoenix for Amare + Grant Hill + Lopez + Barnes + Dragic.
     
  18. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Can you explain why our team was so effective offensively in the years before AI when we had the exact same scoring options in our front court? So now LBJ is a PF and the most versatile scoring big in the game because he looks like one ? He doesn't play PF, has barely any back to the basket game and scores in the same way that AI does/use to; getting to the rim. LBJ also relies heavily on jumpshots and the 3 pointer. You do not throw the ball into him in the post like he's Tim Duncan. He does not average 10+ boards a game and he's not a 20/10 player (unless you're talking about assist which i still don't think is his average).

    The reference might have flaws, but CLE is a team that relies on their bigs solely for defense and before Mo Williams essentially relied on that and Lebron to provide a majority of the scoring. We got rid of our PG and focused on being a defensive team with AI being able to take over the offense. What we didn't count on is AI not even being able to outscore Stuckey.


    So you're saying that Tay does all those things at at the 4? Have you watched Tay at the 4 or SB for that matter ? Tay is a good player at the 3 not the 4. The skills he brings at the 3 do not make an effective PF. All these players are better than Prince at the 4. Was that not the point of our argument ? You said that that all our bigs are inconsistent and suck and so Curry has no choice but to g with Tay at the 4. They are all better than tay AT THE 4. Prince cannot rebound like Dice at the 4. He can't defend the post like KB at the 4, etc, etc.


    Have there not been 50 articles talking about how the move back to SF has helped Tay so much, how he's not effective at the 4, how he's wearing down, how he has no legs for offense when he has to play the 4, how much our reboundign suffers, etc. Tayshaun Prince is not a reliable offensive option against other team's PF's. He occassionally gets a match-up where we play a team with a sucky PF or a sucky team where he looks servicable and then goes back to not being able to score. If Michael Curry thinks this he is an idiot.


    Yet you still manage to respond to my posts
    . You still take the time to write long winded responses to what i say. If you think what i'm saying is repetitive, what does that say about you that you keep responding to them ?

    And i would never dare try to get in the middle of the fans and their irrational love and endless justifications for making themselves feel better about AI and this trade while the team continues on it's quest for missing the PO's.

    Yes it's conjecture. Let's all be mindless robots and wait for Joe Dumars and Micheal Curry to tell us what's really going on b/c we all don't have two eyes and can't make guesses from what we see.
    No we had a chance all of the second half. All we needed was a 25-pointer and we would be right back in it.


    You know what you're right. Tay at the 4 is a brilliant option. Putting Tay at the 4 absolutely did not cost us the game. The game was lost because Amir committed fouls. If we keep Amir out of the game and keep Tay at the 4 so he can score, everything will be much better.

    It's obvious we do not and will not agree.

    I respect your opinion. Even if you are horrifically wrong. [​IMG]
    Maybe you should work on your sense of humor.
     
  19. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Cute. I was pointing out to someone saying that CB sucked in the last two series that he was injured in the BOS one. It had absolutely no relevance whatsoever to anything about LH/JW, etc. And it literally was a one sentence post saying CB was injured in the BOS series. Oh and since you're selectively quoting something on another board you should probably go read the rest of that thread. Wait you did, you were posting in it and still brought this here out of context.

    You're right. Chauncey's not a major reason we are struggling right now. We just need time to gel. We are just making mistakes. Once we stop that we will be great with AI. Championship here we come!!!!!

    I'm sorry what was your response to my post about looking up the times you mentioned how after we lost Ben Wallace we were never the same, we started our downfall, we will never be what we were, etc. ? I think i missed it.
     
  20. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    If you review my post, you will clearly see that I called him a shooting guard in a power forwards body. It's sort of the same thing Amir fans do when they call him a power forward even though he's living in Tayshaun Princes body.
    I also said he got double digit rebounds almost every time out....hours before he netted 14 of them.
    Thats different than claiming averages.
    By the way, if back to basket game and double digit rebounds are going to be the prerequisite for a forward/center...we now have none.
    Good job.

    So in the end he's just like all the other power forwards we have. They can all do something better than the others. If one were to single out the one thing any of those guys cannot do as well as the next we could make a case for each and every one of them not being good enough to play. Which is exactly my point. Thanks again.
    I actually theorized that Curry may feel that Tay at the 4 is a better option. I never claimed he "had no choice". I'm insulted that you keep misquoting me. It's like you're skipping my original posts and reading the gamecasts of them or something.....
    I'm naturally drawn to obsessive compulsive indications?

    There you go again. Making it all about AI.
    It always comes back to him with you. Are you honestly not noticing that? You keep managing to stick him into the center of a conversation that was originally about the frontcourt and Michael Curry.

    Why?
    You weren't the only one I was intending to illicit a smile from.

    see my sig

    :cheers:
     

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