Dallas Jan. 23rd, 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'January 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 19, 2009.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Does he?

    He's promoted Kwame and Amir to the starting lineup 5 times, and it's only the halfway point. He claims he wants to get in 32 minutes of big ball, but doesn't. Even when he says he does, he comes up short by almost 25% in the best cases.

    He tells us he values Walt, AA but he doesn't play them. Walt is out of the rotation altogether. Someone pointed out to me the other day by PM that the national announcers referred to max as the whipping boy. Personally, I think Kwame has been the whipping boy.

    This team isn't coming to play most nights, they aren't bringing it for 2 consecutive quarters, and they don't come out of timeouts organized. Last night Curry had this to say,

    First, if the team is frustrated with locking in and not getting results, whose problem is that?

    And second, shootaround? We're talkin 'bout shootaround? Not the game, not the game I love, shootaround? Has Curry been talking to Lee?




    (no offense General, just joshing around)
  2. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Avery Johnson...thats all I have to say. He turned down the Grizzlies offer about a week ago because he wants to go to a team that has a chance to win.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't know that Avery Johnson is any better than Michael Curry. He took over a ready made offensive powerhouse, and asked them to play some defense. Don't forget, this is the guy who was badly schooled by his teacher when Golden State eliminated them. And badly schooled by Pat Riley in the Finals.

    Joe is going to stick with Curry for the short term. I thought about this a lot this morning. I'll try to bring it up on the podcast tomorrow.
  4. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    Man I see people complaining about Will Bynum and CB in this thread? Will Bynum played fine. I thought he actually played pretty good.

    CB? The dudes gone and he's not coming back. I would rather watch this then watch CB and the crew win 50 games and lose in the playoffs.

    It's really becoming apparent that our front court is in dire need of a scoring big. When Sheed is scoring 3 and 5 points that's not good. He's really our only scoring threat at the big postions. Amir? No offense. Max? No offense. Dyess? Sadly becoming our #1 scoring (jump shooting) big. Kwame? Doesn't play.

    How can we win when Sheed is scoring 5 points? He's getting old real fast. Amir and Max are basically the same players (hustle bigs, no offense).

    It's hard to play and win with that kind of production up front. Pretty soon teams will get the memo and collapse on the guards.
  5. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Probably smart to turn down that job. The Grizz seem to me to be a badly run franchise -- the Detroit Lions of the NBA (well, not quite that bad, because they don't have the long track record of futility that the Lions have). I still don't understand why they gave away Pau Gasol to LA last year or the year before. The team seems to have (not surprisingly) gotten even worse since then. Maybe there is a simple explanation for the Gasol giveway that I have just missed.
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    You really don't think he's better? I know he took over a team that was already good but remember that Dallas never reached the Finals until he took over as coach. I don't care how good that team has been he took them further than any other previous coach and that impresses me.

    And sometimes its hard to ask people to play defense. And at this point I will take getting schooled by top coaches like Riley and Nelson over getting schooled by Mike Woodson (if the playoffs started today we would play his team).
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I can't believe I'm typing this, but can you imagine what Flip could have done with AI or with a Stuckey capable of dropping 40? Yeah, maybe they couldn't get past the ECF, but they would have gotten there. This team surely isn't going to.

    All right, maybe not, but what we have here is an utter failure of coaching. The offense consists solely of throwing the ball to a guard and letting them try and score. There is no focus, no intent on scoring in the post, no attempt to exploit weakness in the defense. And I don't think any of the braintrust has a clue how to change it.

    Curry is the only guy on the planet capable of stopping AI across a couple dozen games in a row.

    When the team looks too small, he pulls Prince and brings in Bynum.


    I guess all teams are frustrating if you follow them closely, but this one is getting really boring.
  8. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    I think the 2006 finals demonstrate how the 2-3-2 playoff format can effectively negate the home court advantage. If each team wins the games they are supposed to win (their home games) in this format, the team that has the home court advantage for the series suddenly finds itself down 3 games to 2 and facing elimination in game 6 at home. That is what happened to Dallas that year.
  9. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    One good that should have come from the Chauncey trade is some new energy and life. It hasn't happened yet.
  10. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Well, Iverson clearly lays the Pistons offensive woes right on Curry's doorstep. He said as much in an interview or post-game presser a week or so ago.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And I keep thinking there has to be some "there, there" because Curry is somehow able to [STRIKE]coax[/STRIKE] coach himself into those hideous suits.
  12. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Does he come up short? Or do the players he would like to contribute consistently come up short and force him to look elsewhere for the love? I didn't predict prior to the season's start that neither Amir or Kwame would hold down that spot because my magic 8-ball said it was likely, it was just the safest bet around considering how similar the two are at their core.

    I'm 99.999% convinced MC wants to play big ball just like he says he does, unfortunately for us and him, he has a jacked up cavalcade of bigs to choose from right now that isn't overwhelmingly deserving of anything more than what they get. That doesn't have any bearing on what MC wants to do, just on what he does do.
    I don't want to work another day in my life. Unfortunately for me I'm not stinking rich, so I go to work. It doesn't change what I want to do.

    Those who get upset at MC for not playing the big ball would be equally as upset if he played a lineup just to play a lineup and got the same results
    Plenty of us knew AA was the one that was going to suffer in the PT department if Rip remained with the team. IIRC you were one of them.

    As far as Kwame goes. He is what he is, and what he is isn't as good as what Jason and Amir could be if they ever decided to get it. I'd keep trying to reach them as well if I were in Curry's shoes. IMO, Kwame will still be the same guy for this team if needed come playoff time that he would be if Curry started him and played him 25 minutes a night.
    Theirs.

    MC can give them all the tools in the world, but only they can choose whether or not to be so easily governed by their emotions and feelings out on the basketball court.

    I mean, seriously. He's telling his guys to quit jumping and reaching, and they get overexcited and just won't quit. Short of some adjustments in PT there really isn't anything he can do if they refuse to exercise the slightest modicum of discipline in the face of adversity.

    In response he can tell them where they went wrong, and hope they get over it.

    I guess there is the option of taking the team out for icecream and lollys to make them feel better. :love:
    It sounds ridiculous but this is candid info from a guy that is being straight up with us rather than trying to dazzle us with cute overcomplicated BS.

    He's seeing something in the morning shootaround (light practice) that is translating into poor game performance. He's not talking about the pregame warmups here.

    I really don't see what the big problem is with Mike. He's attempting to instill principles and fundamentals in this team that it has been missing for years. I've never seen Allen fighting for defensive positions on the court like I've seen him on this squad, even when he played for LB. I think this will only get more noticeable over time. What I'm hoping, is that something will click inside the collective heads of these frontcourt players, or Joe will make a move before the deadline.
  13. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    who are you going to throw it to in the post? amir? max? kwame? sheed refuses to go in the post half the time. what can curry do, magically give one of those other guys a post game?
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Max loves it down there. He'd live in the post if we ran plays for him. Max, Amir, and Kwame are shooting well over .600 in the paint. Ignoring dunks and tips, it's still in the mid .500's.

    Amir looks pretty lost in there, but it's still worth exploring every once in a while if he doesn't have a good defender on him.

    If LB can feed Ben Wallace in the post (he was shooting .396 without dunks and tips), then we can give Max and KB a try.
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Based on Joe's track record recently, if it is not a big trade then I see someone along the lines of Ron Dupree coming to town.

    I guess between the team developing some chemistry and seeing more than 2 games of this "final" line-up the trade dealing should let us know what's up.

    If you go back to training camp you can make the case that the team has known all along that this wasn't going to work and is trying to string the $$ out of the fans for as long as they can .

    No trades are made in the offseason and the much ballyhooed hiring of Curry is talked about.

    Despite the same chemistry laden team coming back we are told it will take 15-20 games for this team to gel.

    Billups is traded 2 games into the year which makes the bad play and sub par results seem normal.

    Billups is traded for another 2 guard when they already have one. I count myself among the suckered, but this move was so obvious that a guy from ESPN who normally writes about Laguna Beach and 90210 picked up on it,

    The team drags out the decision if they should start AI & Rip or bring one off the bench despite Rip's injury presenting them with a golden opportunity to make a move.

    The team finally decides to bring Rip off the bench but we $houldn't expect result$ right away. We $hould keep paying and wait for this gloriou$ and inevitable bonding to take place in the playoff$.

    This is nothing but speculation on my part, but at this point I have a hard time seeing things differently. To say that people complained that Flip didn't experiment enough is missing the point. This "experimentation" by Curry has resulted in 3-5 guys playing 43+ minutes a night.
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Ok, so Joe should take responsibility for that.

    But that doesn't change the fact that With kwame's start tomorrow, that will make 6 roster changes in half a season NOT due to injury.

    There is no consistency in the roster, and not all of it can be blamed on Joe or the players. I've been in leadership positions before. Sometimes, you pick your horses, and then you work to make them better. Sometimes it is totally futile. You can't make a 5'10" player a center but if you only have 5'10" players, someone is going to play center, and your job as the leader is to make that guy as good as he can be.

    Is your argument really that no other coach could get more out of the same group?

    One of the problems of being the "head coach" is that you are the leader. When your subordinates fail, you fail. You can't succeed at your job, if the people below you are failing at theirs. The position is not so much strategic or technical or even emotional/psychological as it is about being able to take responsibility.

    I was all over Curry's jock early on. I thought he was doing a good job. But with the fluctuating roster, the inability to make decisions with his established players and the scapegoating of his lesser players, it's just become sad. There is no excuse for the fact we have one of the greatest scorers in NBA history, and a PG capable of scoring 40 twice in half a season, as well as other seasoned scorers, and we have trouble reaching 85 points most nights.

    I *hope* I am reading the situation wrong. I hope it is really Mike Curry working 18 hour days, driven at all costs to win. But when he went on the S&W show, and told us all this was a transition year, it seemed pretty clear to me that he's feeling no pressure to compete for the big prize. And that sucks, because as you said, no matter how my day went, how much work I have to do, the chat is open at gametime, and the fans put aside their friends, family, problems, habits, whatever, to try to find a couple of hours of enjoyment in Pistons basketball. Not necessarily a win, but not this garbage we have been treated to for the better part of the last two months.

    I don't need the Pistons to win. Carlisle's teams lost 32 games both years. But they competed every night, and say what we will about Carlisle, his team last night responded to a crushing loss with some pride. When we get crushed, we don't even re-flate half way. No one is holding anyone accountable out there, and even the ESPN guys pointed it out last night. Curry wasn't mad, the players weren't mad, no one gives a damn.

    And maybe that's the problem. I give a damn. I'm having trouble swallowing that this is a transition year.
    :angrysoapbox:
  17. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Piston fans:

    I have to side with Cloud's post on this thread. The rotation debate and Curry have obscured what is becoming more and more an underlying problem: our aging bigs and the inconsistency of the young bigs who are supposed to step up in this void.

    What top team are our bigs better than? Lakers? Boston? Orlando? Ok, maybe Cleveland. Sheed cannot bring it like before and he was never good in the post. He had that baseline jumper. He could sometimes go quick to the front of the hoop but even then, would often miss the bunny. That is about it. Dyss hasn't posted up in years. He has trouble with AI feeds. Look at Ben vs. the Lakers. He was almost non-existent in the Cav loss. That is what is happening with our aging bigs.

    The Pistons were not outplaying the Mavs in the first quarter with the so called big line up either. The Mavs scored like 31 points. Not good. Maybe it was one game. But the one games are beginning to add up...

    The team is 5 years from the title. Gravity weighs hard in the NBA.

    I don't see how Iverson and Rip can get the playing time unless AI plays some point guard. Curry is making it worse but he didn't create the problem. I wouldn't down grade Rip so fast. He is three years younger than AI, plays better defense at his position and shoots better. I would think twice about unloading him by years end in favor of AI.
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is my problem also. If they were more forthright about not having championship expectations this season then I think I would be OK with it. To continue to sit here and act like the AI trade was a great move for this year and that Amir will be able to play almost 15 minutes of the first half before he picks up is 3rd foul is killing me.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You can leave that up if you want Ernie. Maybe I shouldn't have deleted my post.

    Like Mike Curry, I have no confidence in my posts or my decisions. lol
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    D'oh!!!!!!

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