Concerns about the 05/06 team

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mercury, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Preseason is the time for eternal optimism... just reading the national rags you'd think there will be 20+ finalist this year... the team officials lob out all sorts of positive spin to sell more tickets and the media runs with it like a bass on a hook...cause they want to be on the teams good side for future stories...and we fall into the same hype trap (to a lesser extent) as every other hopeful fan in the country.

    That's one of the true value in these forums... we can be free thinkers and chose not to follow the machine.

    This thread is about concerns I have with the current roster/system.

    Areas of concern:

    • Our guards allow too much dribble pen.
    • Ben is less effective defending heavy centers. Especially if they have a decent hook shot.
    • Young untested bench.
    • Lack of defense from Delfino & Arroyo
    • Lack of a consistent post game.
    • Our starting SG & SF are light in the pants, (can be pushed around)
    • Can we be as lucky with injuries as last year
    • New less disciplined system

    Most would probably agree that our bench will be more productive this year (how can it not?)… The question I have is will the points differential improve during the time the bench is replacing the vets. By adding just one more point difference this could easily translate into 5 more wins this year...
    This year defensive stops by the bench vs, stops by the starters in the same time (last year) should be watched closely.
    Will the defense be as effective during the time that the starters used to occupy?

    If we don’t win more games it could easily be directed at the starters for lack of production… however less PT could easily translate to less offensive production.
    Some might argue that the starters will be more productive due to the extra rest.
    Just another intriguing mystery to monitor this year.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Here I go with the diapersucking again.

    I'm not sold on "more offense" until I see that it doesn't compromise the defense. It would be great to average another 1.5 PPG, as long as that increases our differential, rather than creating a parallel slide with our defensive points allowed.
     
  3. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I agree, Wave

    It seems that our defense still has to give other teams that 'locked-down' feeling in order for us to succeed. Teams who were locked down, especially the year before last, became unglued, quite often. There is no feeling like the feeling you get when you are denied everything you are trying to do :frusty: .

    If we lose that, even though we score more points, we will lose ground in the overall scheme of things. We need for teams to feel frustrated for them to know that they are playing the Pistons.

    Off the top of my head, I don't remember many teams getting that same feeling last year :doh: !!
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Crushing D

    I have never had more satisfaction watching basketball than when the Pistons were holding teams in the 60's on a regular basis. It was so ugly that it was a thing of beauty. Adding to the mystique was the way that the NBA hated it. The ultimate compliment is when they have to change the rules to stop you. Like when they "Tiger-proof" a golf course.
     
  5. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    My concern

    Our starters haven't played as many minutes together in the preseason as most other teams, who are now playing their starters regular minutes in these last few preseason games.

    This wouldn't be a concern except that I don't feel like they've really got Flip's system down yet. I hope this doesn't result in a sluggish start.
     
  6. LA Sam

    LA Sam Second Round Draft Pick

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    Valid Concerns

    Areas of concern:


    Our guards allow too much dribble pen.
    I believe that this will be minimized by using nore of a "Matchup Zone" rather than a pure zone. I am hoping this is what Flip means when he tells the team that, if you're doing it right, a zone can be close to man-man.

    Ben is less effective defending heavy centers. Especially if they have a decent hook shot. -
    Play Dale Davis or etter yet give Darko more minutes. Darko may be light in the pants, but he always brings a "block" party with him.

    Young untested bench.
    They will make mistakes early on, but watch out down the stretch.

    Lack of defense from Delfino & Arroyo
    I'm only concerned about this in the playoffs. It shouldn't hurt us that much while we attempt to compile the best record in the east.

    Lack of a consistent post game.
    Yeah, we'll have to wait and see on this one.

    Our starting SG & SF are light in the pants, (can be pushed around)
    Big concern! Especially with Artest balooning up to HULK proportions.

    Can we be as lucky with injuries as last year
    I'm beginning to believe it's a bit more than luck, but even good luck can run out.

    New less disciplined system
    Another wait and see proposition. It all depends on the players, if they remember their roots, we're ok. If not....
     
  7. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    AREAS OF CONCERN:

    Our guards allow too much dribble pen
    .

    Always have, but I think they will be able to be more aggressive if the back up 1 and 2 can produce. Faster guards (TJ, Earl, Iverson) give us the fits but if the first line of defence can play them closer it will make things easier for the second line to swat (Tay, Dice, Ben, Sheed, Max and Darko - let the block party begin).

    Ben is less effective defending heavy centers. Especially if they have a decent hook shot.
    True. But how many have a decent hook shot? Also, three things seem to always work in his favor: he's strong, in better condition then most centers and they are tired towards the end when the game is one the line.

    Young untested bench
    Yeah, but if this preseason is any indication of what we can do, we'll be fine. The youngsters are hungry and seem to almost all have a chip on their shoulder.

    Lack of defense from Delfino & Arroyo
    Bench: (offensive 1/2) Arroyo and Delfino (defensive 1/2) Hunter and Evans. Play Arroyo with Evans and Hunter with Delfino. Balance.

    Lack of a consistent post game
    Yeah, we'll have to wait and see on this one. (I couldn't come up with an better answer.)

    Our starting SG & SF are light in the pants, (can be pushed around)
    Never seems to bother us before.

    Can we be as lucky with injuries as last year
    In Arnnie and Mike we trust.

    New less disciplined system
    As long as w don't hang ourselves with that rope, we'll be fine. More options opens up the creative juices and keeps the other team guessing. We'll just have to all keep our heads in the game and not take any plays off.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Funny, last season one huuuuuge thing about this team was MAKE THE EXTRA!!!! PASS!! LB stressed it big time.

    Flip's ideal is, "If you're open shoot" Flip feels that if you're open then the guy you pass to isn't, basically, 2 guys aren't open on the same posession. Talk about contrast.

    LB's system worked, we have clear tangible results of 1 ring & 2 finals to show that making the extra pass works. But Flips idea may work too, but it'll mean alot of J's going up, which is cool if they go in.
     
  9. jetscreamer

    jetscreamer First Round Draft Pick

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    Game 7 vs SA exposed

    Pistons' weakness in that #2 guard i.e. Hamilton is not a good ball handler so when Bowen was guarding Billups to stop his shot he was also shutting down the offense by stopping Billups. As opposed to SA, during the finals I was more worried when Ginobili was doing the ball handling because he was so dangerous. Maybe Delfino can provide that.
     
  10. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I hear that! The bench is exciting to talk about but I wouldn't want to rely so heavily on them. Anyway, the wait is almost over.
     
  11. clingman

    clingman First Round Draft Pick

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    both are right....

    both coaches are right to a point... our offense was offensive at times the last two years because we over passed, and had to throw up a bad shot as the shot clock wore down, what flip is saying i think is if a good shot take it... don't think about the shot, if shooters think about a shot i think there more likely to miss, catch and if open let it go, if your covered find the open man for a better shot. there is a fine line between over passing, and being selfish, hopefully the vets can find the balance that is needed to make us a better offensive team
     
  12. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Starters Minutes

    Last year the starters averaged 182 minutes a game out of a possible 240. When you add Dyess that goes up to 205 minutes a game, which left only 35 minutes a game for everyone else.

    Those numbers will change significantly this year. I would expect that those six would average no more than 160 - 175 minutes a game with everyone else getting at least 65 minutes a game among them.
     
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    And its not like we'll only have the bench there to get the starters rest they can help us win.
     
  14. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Response, my own stuff

    Our guards allow too much dribble pen.
    Not really. CB is a pretty solid guard. Further, with Ben back there for blocks, driving in is not that great an idea much of the time.

    Ben is less effective defending heavy centers.
    Always has been. But on average, considering Ben completely shuts off some centers and power forwards so completely, is on average a pretty darn good defender. And we have Sheed and Darko for the bigger badder bigs in the league now.

    Especially if they have a decent hook shot.
    Already said, this is a rare talent these days.

    Young untested bench.
    Just not applicable. This would only be a problem if they could not play.


    Lack of defense from Delfino & Arroyo
    Neither has looked that bad so far. And both help a lot in organizing the offense out there, making such things as transition D better. Neither of these players is doing less than their best on defense. Thats a good start. If Dunleavy was on the team, or a superstar who thought D was someone else's job, you could complain a lot more.

    Lack of a consistent post game.
    True, but not for long. I believe Maxiell will be a big part of the rotation, and give us a fine post up game. Further, remember the 10 free throws Darko made in one game earlier in the preseason? That was from posting up.

    Our starting SG & SF are light in the pants, (can be pushed around)

    I don't agree. Yes, Brown tended to use Rip at small forward too much. I doubt we are going to see much of that this year. Even with Artest, Tay held his own pretty well. And Rip does ok with the league's shooting guards for the most part, as most shooting guards are not all that physical.

    Can we be as lucky with injuries as last year
    Why not? At least as lucky as the next team. But you know, the Pistons have one very deep team this year. I expect they could sustain quite a few injuries and still win it all.

    New less disciplined system
    Its a different system. There is a difference between disciplined and right, and discipline for discipline's sake. Sure, Larry Brown would not allow a whole lot of different things last year. But just maybe he should have. Flip allowing good confident shooters to shoot open shots is a lowering of discipline, a discipline that might have been misplaced. If Arroyo is dribbling a bit too much for Flip's taste, but is still kicking the other team's butt, Flip is going to chill and let Arroyo continue to kick the other team's butt, and learn to like it. Again, a lowering of discipline, but again, for the good.

    Game almost on so I will do a separate post on my take of the team's problems.
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Per a post at mlive.com, McCoskey said that Flip said that it would be 3 bench guys getting 20 to 25 minutes, with 2 more getting 5 to 10. I don't know how accurate this is, but it would be about 33 minutes per game for the starters.
     
  16. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    So Lee, I just wanna get this right... correct me if I'm wrong... are you saying this years team has no flaws???

    Your optimism is grrrr8888 (Tony the tiger version)... but if you don't see any problems that would mean a perfect record... please be a little realistic.
     
  17. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Merc

    I share each of those concerns. Some will probably turn out to be unwarranted, others will turn out to be legitimate.

    After observing the preseason, I have an additional concern, which is that I think we're going to be outshot from the FT line frequently.
     
  18. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Merc Part II

    Got cut off trying to add to my last post.

    I thought your list was pretty comprehensive. The ones I felt most strongly about were 1) dribble penetration, 2) Arroyo/Delfino D (although I think they will inject some energy into the team off the bench the way the old Salley/Rodman combo did), 3) our low-post game (or lack thereof) and 4) discipline.

    I think for the most part the Tay/Rip featherweight issue won't be a problem, but may be critical against Indy (Artest). He manhandled Tay during the brawl game last year (a lot of people have forgotten that). The reason Tay was effective against him the year before had more to do with Artest, who I thought was too content to shoot perimeter jumpers rather than using the physical advantage he has on Tay.

    I had heard some rumors that Carlisle would try Artest some at the 4 this year. I hope he does, because I think 'Sheed is probably the player on our team best equipped to handle him. Maxiell could also be effective against him, but I can't see him getting minutes in a playoff game.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Good thoughts Tbird... I was beginning to think the only faults would be Dupree & Evans playing together.
    Well said.
     
  20. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Merc

    Well, that, of course, is also a problem.

    Using my extra-sensory perception, I was able to visualize their lack of ball-handling skills by listening to the sound of the ball hitting the floor in the background of the radio broadcast of last night's game.
     

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