Cleveland Cavs Feb. 1st, 2:30 PM

Discussion in 'February 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 25, 2009.

  1. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Agree with your points. Stuckey is also suffering from inconsistent coaching as well. He is not a finished product yet. His game will become more consistent. I do think he will be great player.
     
  2. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Against my better judgement i watched this game.

    This is my recap;

    1st quarter; ok
    2nd quarter; good
    3rd quarter; GO TEAM
    4th quarte; BAD
     
  3. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Anyone else yearn for the Going to Work days when DEE-troit Basketball seemed less embroiled in politics and all we had to ponder was why Joe fired Carlisle after the ECF? Maybe it's just me...office stuff has spilled on to the floor.
     
  4. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Bet the other two players on the floor with all three was Amir and Sheed most of the time!
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We started with SB in less than 25% of games, but it has averaged more than 20 minutes per night. It's almost half our season. Since it is such a counter intuitive strategy that has even been criticized by the coach who implemented it, I thought it would be a valid issue to analyze. If it was working, why would a coach bench an all-star for Amir Johnson???

    In the last 20 games, SB is -37 and BB is +37. That is a difference of 3.7 points per game. That difference would be enough to take us from having the 16th point differential in the league to being tied with Denver in 6th place, right behind San Antonio.

    There are many other issues for sure. I'm not really worked up over this anymore since it seems to have been abandoned. We've been playing some SB with 2 bigs in the game, which I don't have a problem with. It wasn't so much having Rip at the 3 that was killing us, it was Tay at the 4 paired up with a Center who is permanently on the perimeter.

    WWBWT? What would Ben Wallace think?
     
  6. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    When Rip was out, Afflalo got playing time along with Amir and Max because Sheed was out too. Our yungins were giving us energy and the opposition fits. We were wearing them down before becoming worn down.

    Tay was loggin too many minutes but the other 4 guys on the court were helping him on defense and getting him involved in the offense.

    We have the horses to make a run at this thing but we keep beating the dead ones. Sheed and Dice should never be on the floor together and neither should log more then 30 minutes.

    Amir was making a difference in this game and should have come back in to take Dices spot in the fourth. We might have still lost but at least we would have been running to the finsh line instead of limping.
     
  7. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    In terms of the smallball vs bigball argument, it is CurryBall that is losing these games.

    Rip was there for the first two games of the 7 game streak. After he left with the frozen groin, the defense seem to have tighten up bit giving up an average of 85.6 ppg. for the 8 games he was out.

    Yeah they missed Rip's scoring and the team averaged only 87.8 ppg, without him, but with the exception Amir, the scoring was balanced across the board with the remaining starters. (even with Sheed missing half of those eight).

    So as Star Jones indicated, something disappeared......So maybe MC and Joe need to go back and review those tapes from late December and early January to see what we were doing right or send Rip packing................
     
  8. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Low,

    Thanks for a refreshing comment. The Pistons cannot execute for 48 minutes period--not so far--only the Orlando game. The Cav game was a prime example. Breakdowns have occurred throughout the season with a variety of line ups. I don't like small ball but small ball is a symptom of a deeper problem.


    The roster is in imbalance with too many good guards (but guards who don't complement each other and not one whom can shoot the long ball) and aging bigs complemented by young bigs who play well one game and disappear the next.

    Let me put it another way, if Dyss and Sheed were still 28, this Piston team would still be dominant.

    Curry is blamed too much for aging bigs and unsteady young bigs, for guards like Stuckey who are young and make errors or for guards like Rip and AI who also make ball handling errors.

    Some of the lack of cohesion can be put on Curry but a lot of the problem is in the roster itself. The irony is that the Pistons can play at or near elite level still but cannot sustain it.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We give up steals less than all 29 other teams in the league. While sure-handed big men like Sheed and Dyess are a part of this stat, our guards can't be too bad.

    Also, we have the best turnover differential in the NBA.


    Another part of this may be that we have the 2nd slowest pace. Keeping things under control and not running makes it easier to take care of the ball.
     
  10. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Tay,

    Yes, the Piston offense is slow. The defensive figures don't tell the story either as the Pistons slow down the ball hence keeping game scores low. The defense is there now and again but unexplainable lapses occur there too. Also, the team is far from a lock down team like Boston or the Piston teams of a few years back.
     
  11. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

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    This is your sig, TaS? Rather a scathing indictment, don't you think? Did you write it or is it a quote from some other Allen Iverson fan?

    Kinda makes it seem like it's all Allen Iverson's fault, doesn't it?

    NOT.

    This stuff kind of reminds me of the olden days when I was the self-appointed Ben Wallace defender on this forum. There were a few others, but I was most vigilant about any attacks against him. I'll try not to make the same mistake this time around, but I couldn't let this sig pass without notice.

    P.S. He is so much better than every other player on our team it's insane. He is the only one going to the Hall of Fame. We're not going to see our beloved Tay there, or our dear Rip, or our Mr. Big Shot who's gone, or Sheed who I really do adore, or Ben. The best starting five are not Hall of Fame material individually. Allen Iverson is the real deal. Can he get a little respect?
     
  12. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    (Sorry, I'm using your post as the basis for a ramble.)

    Is Stuckey a point guard, or don't the conventional categories fit very well anymore? He's certainly not a pass first Magic / Kidd / Nash kind of guard. But, I'm not sure he can be effective without the ball in his hands. I don't see him coming off screens, moving into space for the open jumper - the kind of things a two is expected to do. When he played with Billups, it was usually CB who moved to the two spot.

    He's more Baron Davis than Billups, actually in my mind, more like AI than almost anyone else. That's certainly not a conventional point, but maybe it's what point guards will be like from now on, while threes are moving towards being heavier assist guys.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Not just 3s but 4s as well. The international players are pretty handy with the ball.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Who is the team that plays at a slower place than DET, the team of zombies/mummies that used to play against the Globetrotters on Scooby Doo?
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't remember. But we actually play the same pace as the Spurs and only 1 possession slower than the Cavs, so it's not such a bad thing in itself. All the good teams seem to play at a slower pace. Probably because they don't take stupid shots, don't turn it over, and don't allow fast breaks.
     
  16. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    My guess it Ben Wallace would think: "Man...glad I bounced."

    To answer your one question. I think he benched an all-star for Amir because he was told to do so. Joe has stated repeatedly that he wants this guy on the floor and each coach has decided he doesn't want to play Amir. I think this happened by mandate, not by any kind of self recognition of one's own coaching flaws. This also coincides with why I think they hired Curry in the 1st place. He's in no position to argue with management on how things get done.

    Honestly, IMO small ball is not really an issue during games because every team in the league has stretches where some of their bigger players sit. Everybody has to deal with it for stretches during games (whether it's an off night, foul trouble, or whatever). That's the only reason it doesn't stand out to me in terms of substitution pattern. My view on it was mainly as a starting lineup issue, because it usually falls in place that the starting lineup gets way more minutes. So, if it's used for 15 minutes during the normal pattern of substitution, I don't view it as playing "small ball." You can really only play the guys you have at each position.

    I agree with you on Tay not being the ideal PF, but I felt like it was offset by a bit of offensive efficiency that wasn't there (with the exception of when Rip was hurt). Everyone used to complain that we were small when all we had was Corliss coming off the bench. For that matter, all we had was Elden Campbell as a defending reserve big man and I don't think that made us all that big either, but it worked. I just feel like if guys are gettng the job done and playing harder/smarter than they have been, size isn't as much an issue.
     
  17. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Couldn't agree more. Why are so many people clamoring for a return of the AI-Rip backcourt? That lineup didn't exactly produce stellar offensive numbers and you know that lineup weakens them defensively.
     
  18. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    True. Rip was the guy checking LeBron at the end of game 2 of the 07 of the ECF, and forced him into a really tough shot. Of course I don't remember Rip checking Bron at any point in game 5... Flip thought better of Prince, Billups and even putting Max on on LeBron I guess. :gaah:

    Hamilton has shown that he can guard LeBron in key stretches of games. Obviously he can't do it for a full game because LeBron would absolutely wear him down.
     
  19. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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  20. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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