Home Cleveland Cavaliers Friday Feb 1 2013

Discussion in 'February 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Fun one to watch. CLE w/o V though.

    Regardless of how easy it was to score on them, Knight's relentless pushing of the ball was a pleasure to watch. Amazing he didn't turn it over more in all that traffic.

    Surprised no JJ in 2nd half.

    Overall, everybody did their thing for the most part.
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  2. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Good game today. Cavs play hard, but are not a very good team, especially when their star doesn't play well.

    Brandon was very good, and though while he usually will play well against the Cavs, he just seemed even more energized than usual. 20 points (had 2 more off a dunk taken away by a Stuck charge), 10 assists, 6 boards is very, very good, and only 1 turnover. He also had a block and drew a charge against Kyrie. Oh, nice lob to Kyle as well.

    Greg had a real good game as well, if slightly less efficient than is desirable from a big man. 18 points, 16 rebounds, 4 assists and only 1 turnover. His highlight was an awesome block followed by a dunk on the other end in the first half. Nice to see him taking (and making) the jumpers a little more too.

    Max was decent, but his (and Monroe's) defense was less than adequate.

    Stuckey went up against his mirror image in Waiters and shut him down. He was very good for a stretch, and quite efficient.

    Andre was good, but looked a little winded at times.

    Kyle was ok (surprised he leads the team in FGA), started off slow but got better as the game went on. He did a terrific job harassing Gee and an even better job just running the floor and MOVING, which is refreshing after years of watching our starting 3 stand around and pump fake 10000000 times. He seems much more comfortable in this role.

    Bynum was fine. He scored well and had 8 assists, but the defense was nonexistent. Livingston made mince meat out of him in the first half (though I put some of this on Frank - guy had 7 inches on Will, come on).

    The BoT did as the BoT does.

    Kenny was ok, didn't make too many mistakes and was decent defensively. Rebounded well for a guard.

    JJ - it seems he hasn't learned anything from getting benched. He's playing disinterested ball right now, and horrible D. He only got 6+ minutes, but even that's guaranteed to fall off if he continues to play like a turd on offense and a traffic cone on defense.

    This game was such a rout there was a Middleton and Krav sighting. Khris has such a pretty looking jumper, he should get more PT if Kenny doesn't start producing more.

    Good win.
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  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Kravtsov is intriguing. I'm hoping for more garbage time auditions from him after Calderon leads us to some blowouts.
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  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Nice to watch a win over Cleveland any day.

    Ok, if Cleveland is so bad, why was Bynum double digits negative for the game prior to garbage time?

    Knight was plus 30. Stuckey plus 20. And yet, there are still people who think Bynum is the better player? Knight made great decisions, got his own just enough, and played fine defense. Stuckey, great defense, helped us win the 3rd quarter with 10 points from mostly posting up.

    Bynum. Lots of assists. Some points of his own. No defense. None. Whatsoever. Mostly, he is just to short out there. And yet, people think he should be playing. I guess if you could less about the defensive end of the floor.

    Drummond was minus 9. Plenty of rebounds per minute, made 4 shots, or 4 taken. Plenty of defense from him. But he plays along side Bynum and CV so how much can he do? Not enough.

    Singler got half his points in the 4th. He did make one three, but his 20 points were mostly on short jumpers and getting to the basket. Very nice game from him, including 8 rebounds. And never ever does the ball stall when thrown his way. And since he is now our starting small forward, he did not ever get caught with too little quickness to follow his guy around.

    Monroe ended up with a monster game of 18 / 16. Yes, he made a couple of jumpers as they played way off him. Still, the last thing I want to see is him taking a lot of jumpers and turning into one of those types. Keep crashing into the paint Greg.

    JMAX did fine on defense in all. We won the 1st and 3rd by 18 total points. Individually, he can't play great defense. But as part of a team that is swarming on D like the Pistons often were tonight, JMAX fits in real well.

    CV did hit one three, but what I liked is that he did a bit of damage in closer. Now, as someone mentioned, this is just Cleveland. Most teams won't let CV score inside much. Still don't like him being on the team much.

    Knight's 20 - 10 game, with just one turnover that I recall anyway, even had 6 bounds to go with it. And he played plenty of D. Now, he will continue to start, along side Calderon, from what I am reading here. With both backcourt players being 6-3, it will be ok. But if we had to play Cleveland tonight, with Calderon - who would have guarded their off guard? Speaking of Calderon, and his lack of D - people speculate that we will see lots of alley oops from Calderon to Drummond. Which would mean they would play on the floor at the same time. Will coach unveil a new starting rotation Sunday: Calderon, Knight, Singler, Monroe, Drummond?

    If so, we could use a bench of Stuckey, English, Middleton, JMAX, Kravtsov. Hey, I can dream.
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  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    If you don't like Bynum's defense, you're going to hate Calderons. lol
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Watching Greg Monroe on an off night is P-A-I-N-F-U-L. That has to be the ugliest 18 and 16 that I have ever seen.
    Tonight we got abused by a legit PF, Max is too small, Drum and GM are Centers and struggled to keep up with the quick Thompson, but we still won. Maybe as we go forward that's one of those small weaknesses that becomes irrelevant because we're strong in so many other areas?
    Brandon Knight looked like a dude who received a clear message with the arrival of Calderon.
    Stuckey didn't suck, but I still don't like him.
    Calderon taking notes on the sideline made my tear ducts fill up.
  7. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I have been pleasantly surprised by the young man. I don't know what kind of baller he is. I haven't seen enough of him.

    I can tell you that he is NOT a stiff.

    We shall see.
  8. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    KGREG, I agree that Monroe's performance might be the weakest 18 and 16 in recent memory. A week or two ago he had a 16 and 6 that was absolutely beautiful. The box score doesn't always tell the story.

    Some thoughts on the game-

    Cleveland sucks. Don't read too much into this one.

    Tyler Zeller is a chump. The dude has no game. I thought he was weak in high school. I thought he was weak in college. I think that he is a weak pro. I'm no fan of his little brother either.

    Tristan Thomas has a great feel for the game. He's a natural in the paint. The young man pulled a sweet "up an under" on Monroe. That was some beautiful, Kevin McHale stuff right there.

    Stuckey defended his azz off tonight. He's still in my doghouse, but credit where credit is do.

    Andre Drummond was the opposite of Monroe tonight. His box score says he wasn't a factor, but he was HUGE. The young fella simply changes the game whenever he's in there. He did a LOT of stuff that didn't show up on the stat sheet.

    Singler's stat sheet is impressive. I really like him at the three. He was even better than his stats tonight. I think that this kid might actually be really good. I've always known that he was solid, but he might be better than that. He just did everything tonight.

    Knight completely owned Irving tonight. I think that the pressure of leading this team might have been weighing him down. It was fun to watch him just play. I love his talent.

    Chuck V had a nice game. He played a nice all around game. He defended both on his man and off the ball. He went strong to the the rack when he needed to. He shot the three when it was there.
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  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    I unfortunately didn't get to watch this one, which I am a bit disapointed about. But was happy to see the recap and look through the box score.

    Interesting to read everyone talking about Monroe having a low impact, big box score game. Interestingly, last year I remember watching him get a double double and think the same thing. I tend to find that when his assist tally is >5/6 he is having a really good game, regardless of points or rebounds.

    When Kyrie doesn't turn up, this team sucks. Tristan Thompson is a boss. If Varejao was around we might not have won so convincingly.
  10. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree with you on everything else in your post except this point, and I'm hoping it's sarcasm. The Pistons absolutely need Monroe to become a spot-up shooter if he's going to be successfully paired with Drummond; not exclusively a jump-shooter like McDyess, mind you, but enough of one to be a guardable threat that can stretch opposing defenses. The scouting report is out on him - his defenders are falling back and too many of his turnovers are him driving into double teams and getting the ball stripped away or blocked. Monroe making himself into a midrange threat is the most vital development necessary for the Pistons to be successful long-term.
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  11. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    as well as it forces his defender to come out to guard him and increses the room for Drum to operate down low. This is not to say he needs to stay outside ala CV, but him shooting the mid will also open his drives because his man will be closer and he does have a quick step for a guy that cant jump over a paperclip.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree. Monroe shouldn't just irregardlessly shoot the ball but when his defender leaves him open, daring him to hit the shot, he has to hit those.
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  13. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Great game by Knight. The Calderon effect?

    Nice addition to the sig, TaS.
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think this was the best reason to bring in Calderon. It's been said that Brandon is really hard on himself and when he gets down his play suffers. Maybe playing the 1 at this time is too much pressure for him.

    Also, I thought Greg was awesome in the first half. That block (he got UP!) and then run down the court for the outlet dunk was just awesome. And I am super critical of Greg's game.

    I can stomach a bad defender if he plays hard. I hate lazy players. Calderon works hard, he's just not a great defender. I can live with that.
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  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I'll make this clearer. No sarcasm. Easy to understand. Of course Monroe, eventually, needs to have an outside shot. However, the more he drives into those double teams, the better he will get at it. Being able to score around the basket, against a double team, is every bit as effective as having an outside shot. Both draw a defender to you. But its the inside shot that in the long run will be not only the higher percentage shot, but will also give the following 4 advantages. 1) Monroe will be in a position to rebound the miss. 2) Two defenders being under the basket defending Monroe, probably a guard too for a third often, means not much chance the other team is going to fast break your misses. To this point, see point 1: If Monroe is under the basket fighting for the offensive rebound, the other team pretty much all has to stay put to ensure that defensive rebound for them. 3) Fouls. An outside shot from Monroe will never draw one. As getting the other team in foul trouble is such a big part of the strategy in a playoff game especially, the importance of this can not be stressed enough. 4) Posting up has much the same footwork skills involved as scoring near the basket while driving in against a double team. Taking an outside shot on the other hand adds zilch to your post up game. If Monroe can post up effectively, without the ball of course, that is a lot better than having an outside shot. Case in point. Corliss Williamson for years worried and worried about his outside shot. It never really materialized. But we found he could destroy the opposition by simply posting up well, locking out well, all timed exactly to when the guards would feed him the ball. Corliss again, was extremely effective, without any kind of dependable outside shot.

    With all that said, lets say this. Monroe should, if all possible while still giving us a chance to win the game, drive, drive, drive, rather than shoot the outside shot. Obviously, he should not do this over and over if its just not working. Maybe he needs to try harder to post up. If that 2nd option is not helping them, maybe he needs to shoot the ball to get his defender honest. Main thing in all this, never settle for the outside shot out of "laziness" ever.
  16. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    I could not disagree more, Monroe has done just what you are saying in past games and it has worked about as well as a toaster in the bath tub. If we are going to use Drum and Moose together? Moose can not simply force drives to the hoop, especially into double teams..for numerous reasons, not the least of which...its bad basketball practice to force a shot against double team..because that is a low percentage shot, and it means someoene else is unguarded. It also should be noted that Moose makes bad decisions when the double attacks him and it usually results in a turn over.
    Why would you think it would benefit on any level? as far as the rebounding aspect? why would you want to bring more defenders into the paint to battle Drummond for the offensive rebound? The smart plan is to try to spread the floor like we have seen great success with, and allow Drummond to attack the offensive glass with less traffic.
    Some of your ideas I agree with Lee, this one is just bad basketball.
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I will give an example of two post up players existing together, with neither having an outside shot to speak of. Corliss Williamson, Zelly Rebracca. Both were outstanding post up players. Could the other team stop these guys by jamming the middle? No. Jon Barry, Cliff Robinson, and Damon Jones were all fine outside shooters, so you really could not have more than two guys in the middle. And if they double teamed Corliss, Zelly was unstoppable if you passed it to him near the basket. Ditto for Corliss if you double teamed Zelly. Repeatedly, either Corliss or Zelly would post, lock his man out, and score the ball off a good pass from either Barry or Jones, who worked very well together as a guard tandem to find angles to feed the post at precisely the right time.

    Adding Calderon could help us go to the same setup. Two post players, 3 decent outside shooters. Calderon certainly is one. Singler, still a rookie but looks ok so far for sure. Knight? Looks like he can nail the open 3 ok, which is all we need from him if they choose to put a third man down toward the basket to try to jam things up on us. However, if either Singler or Knight proves not to be the right guy, Middleton should be tried for that role, an outside shooter to keep the defenders away from the middle. Too bad we just lost Daye, since we already know he can do the job. And English is another option.

    If we are going to build a team for now around Monroe and Drummond starting, with Calderon at point - we got to keep a totally open mind about who the other two guys will be out there. If it turns out that English and Middleton are our two best, most consistent outside shooters to compliment Calderon's outside shooting, that would be the right choices for who starts.

    Just thinking. If neither Stuckey nor Knight starts for us, obviously, we would see them as our subs. Say Knight, Stuckey, Singler, JMAX, Kravtsov. Does not sound very promising. But for a 2nd unit, could be fine.
  18. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    You can already see how much Knight's game improved with the mentoring of a true PG in Calderon. I can't wait to see how much better he becomes when Jose starts mentoring him on the court.

    Knight's Asst/TO ratio before Jose's arrival: 1.45.
    Knight's Asst/TO ratio after Jose's arrival: 10.00!

    I rest my case.
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  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Copper, coach has never tried what I said, putting 3 good outside shooters in with Monroe and Drummond. Instead, we have seen rather laughable combos of guards, who don't work at all. And Tay at small forward. Remember, we just started using Monroe and Drummond together a lot very recently - after Bynum began showing up on the floor all the time. No, I think our fundamental disagreement is that you think Bynum is an NBA ball player, and I don't. You think having him out there with Drummond and Monroe is ok. I don't. Until you actually see my idea tried, don't laugh too loud. (Two post up players, three outside shooters with them. PS, did you follow the Pistons closely the year I speak of - Barry, Jones, Robinson, Williamson, Rebracca as our 2nd unit, which scored 42 per game, tops in the league that year?)
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Attacking a double team is done all the time. The main thing, get the shot off before the double team is fully set. Its takes a lot of quick thinking and good footwork, but can be done. And the better a player is at it, the more he go towards superstar status. Show me a superstar inside player that just chooses to pass the ball every time a double team comes. Right. None.

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