1. PF.com is also on Facebook. Follow/Like us Here.
    Dismiss Notice

Home Cleveland Cavaliers - Friday, April 22, 2016 GAME 3

Discussion in '2016 Playoffs' started by roscoe36, Apr 14, 2016.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    3,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Wasn't there 8+ minutes left and wasn't it Irving who fouled Drummond to get him out of the game?

    The Cavs had their starters in. How long would they be willing to foul with them? They still need to score so they can't just sit them.

    It would have been tough - really tough - but maybe you dare them to foul and hope you can get 3 stops in a row?

    I think Van Gundy's reasoning that he doesn't put Drummond back in at 2 minutes because "He can't use him for anything" is BS. If he can't come up with a way to utilize him off the ball then that's on him.

    That's him passing the buck. That's him, the barrel chested captain, making sure he's the first one off the sinking ship.
     
  2. jzchen

    jzchen Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    You gotta understand that when Dre is in the game in the last 2 minutes, offensively RJ run pick and roll with Dre and thus, opponents can foul Dre and Dre will have to go the FT line and earn the points the TEAM needs. Regardless he makes them or not, opponents will get the ball back on offense provided the let the Pistons get the offensive rebound when Dre misses. Other than pick and rolls offense, Dre is useless offensively unless we run the post up play by getting the ball to Dre inside which we hardly do in the 4th quarter the entire season. Defensively, Dre is limited unless he improves his speed and help defense this summer. In addition, he does not have a Sheed, Tay, Rip & Bup Bup who can guard their own man without much help and even if required, the team defense is always excellent and the help defense is always there.

    Unlike Ben Wallace where we don't run any offense through him at all, therefore opponents can do a Hack-A-Ben the last 2 minutes. And defensively, I shall not explain further as he is a 2 time DPOY and his game is all about DEFENSE. Shaq is hardly a pick and roll player and he lives inside the painted area offensively. So, if necessary, they get in the ball under the basket and if opponents were to foul him, he may get an AND 1. So, the tendency to foul him in the last 2 minutes is not there.
     
    The Panda and roscoe36 like this.
  3. jzchen

    jzchen Team Captain Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    905
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Harris is guarded by Bron offensively and Bron is not a bad defensively player.
    Morris has to guard Bron at the defensive end and it is bound to affect him on the offensive end.
    OMB is OMB. You don't call him OLD MAN BLAKE just because he looks old. HE IS OLD. And he has been a victim of bad matchups in this series. Same goes to Baynes.

    I suggest SVG to either play StanJo or Hillard as backup PG in this series. I mean, do we really a pure PG as backup PG in this series? Lots of teams do not even have a pure PG as a starter and I don't see why we need one as backup now. I doubt StanJo or Hillard would give us a higher plus minus (-) than OMB. At least they can post up Delly in the offensive end should it be required. I doubt they could do any more worse at both ends of the floor than what OMB has given to the team in this series. I would guarantee that they would score more points than OMB in this series.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,042
    Likes Received:
    8,445
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Here's the thing, we aren't winning an nba championship this year. So, given that, the best thing that svg can do to increase the odds of a future championship is to leave dre in and let the Cavs foul him 50 times in a row on national TV when people are tuning in from 6 continents to watch lebron. This is a showcasing issue for the rule change.
     
    The Panda, LA Dre, dba and 3 others like this.
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,229
    Likes Received:
    13,719
    Location:
    Michigan
    It has nothing to do with bravado. It's simply common sense. Anyone that would leave him in while the lead continued to grow simply does not understand the difference between winning and losing.
     
    pass99 and roscoe36 like this.
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,122
    Likes Received:
    12,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    I am fairly certain you are the only person who thinks SVG benefits by losing these games.

    Lebron is an excellent defender.

    Right, but we're all very competitive and don't want to see our guys get swept.

    Heaven forbid if there is no rules change. Not sure if I can take another season of this discussion about Dre.
     
    pass99 likes this.
  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    3,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Van Gundy is telling the world that the reason the Pistons are losing isn't because of him (Why didn't you go back to Drummond with 2 to go?), but because of Drummond (Because you can't run anything with him.).

    Drummond is the greatest offensive rebounder of all time. Let that sink in for a bit. It takes 3 people to keep him off the glass.

    Doesn't just putting him on the weak side of the floor alter the math dramatically?
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,122
    Likes Received:
    12,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    What are his rebounding numbers like in this series? I honestly do not know but whatever they are, I am sure that factors into SVG's decision.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,122
    Likes Received:
    12,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    He doesn't get to rebound if they put him on the line.

    Here are his playoff numbers

    [​IMG]
     
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,229
    Likes Received:
    13,719
    Location:
    Michigan
    Teams can still hack him under 2 minutes immediately after he gets a rebound. The fact of the matter is that the Pistons have been winning all season when Baynes comes in during hack-a-dre. It's our best option with our current personnel....if the goal is to win the game.

    If we are to concede the loss as @TaS@TaS suggests, then perhaps SVG leaves him in to make a statement. Maybe Drummond will then ask SVG to take him out after he misses 10 or 15 in a row. Who knows?
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  11. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    .lol...You seriously think that Dre would take himself out? That would take a very big measure of himself.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    21,042
    Likes Received:
    8,445
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    There have been many times this year when the opponent has abandoned hack a dre after he made a few.
     
    The Panda likes this.
  13. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    3,739
    Likes Received:
    1,833
    Partial solution; then get someone like Speights that can play both Center and PF. Alternate Dre and Baynes and watch the offensive sets climb.

    And until he can average 20-25 ppg with appropriate rebound numbers, then it all but neutralizes his current numbers. It means that he will continue to be a rightful cheerleader at the end of games, which all would assume, doesn't agree with him. He will have to elevate his game beyond those rebound numbers and FT are the least of my worries.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    3,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    When the Pistons "use him" it is easier to foul him. They'd need to either surround him on the weak side opening the strong side or cover him differently giving him an open run to the hoop.

    Who cares if they foul him on a tip in?

    Van Gundy's been clear though, he's not budging.
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    3,672
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    His have been abysmal statistically but I feel like that is due to a lot of factors like Cavs game plan, gang rebounding and other defensive focus.

    It is hard to remain upbeat amidst these frustrating losses, but I think Drummond has taken a tremendous step forward in terms of being a defensive presence.

    I think he has sacrificed to some extent.

    We may not be able to appreciate that until next season. Let's not forget that a cadaver could still get him biting on pump fakes just last season.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,229
    Likes Received:
    13,719
    Location:
    Michigan
    If he missed 20 in a row, I bet he would check himself out of the game. No doubt.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    23,229
    Likes Received:
    13,719
    Location:
    Michigan
    roscoe36 likes this.
  18. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    16,265
    Likes Received:
    6,787
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    One last thought on this transported Sit Dre thread.. Agree with TaS the series is over whether we win or lose tonight. Leave Dre and the world see the hacka anybody is the worst play in sports and solution has to be designed eliminate it. It is not done officially in high school, college or international, only in the NBA pros....fix it.

    Baynes is serviceable, but he needs to be relegated to Joel Anthony's spot next year or maybe even to the 4 and replaced with another backup five who can actually jump and move laterally and has softer Kawahi type mitts.

    Pistons hire Rick Barry as summer FT coach for Dre anyone else on the team that needs the help.
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  19. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    4,216
    Likes Received:
    3,750
    Wasn't Baynesy the best backup C in the league three games ago?
     
    roscoe36 likes this.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    32,122
    Likes Received:
    12,773
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Thule
    Nor should he. Leadership 101, never show weakness or doubt. You can be weak and doubt yourself, but you never ever let anyone know.

    A reasonable post. I don't find these losses frustrating. I never expected to do well in the playoffs. We're still in the pre-Zeke passing the ball to Bird on the inbounds arc.

    Ego is a crazy thing. Particularly a young man feeling pride.

    What I think people who criticize SVG here are missing is that he is actually saving Dre a lot of embarrassment. No one is going to be amazed if Dre makes his FTs. If he misses a bunch and the Pistons lose, he will be the talk of the media for days.

    I don't think it is a lack of coaching.

    He still is. Fashion changes rapidly when we lose games.
     
    Ernie the Slow Adult likes this.

Share This Page