Discussion in 'December 2007' started by max, Dec 6, 2007.
Or lose by 6. Anyone wanna give Nocione the MVP award?
Well once again we fall victim to the Bulls...First they stop a 3 game winning streak by the Pistons on national TV (TNT) on 11/8 and now almost one month later they stop the Pistons 5 game winning streak on national TV too.
The Pistons have lost six games this year...four when they allowed the west coast teams score over 100 points and two when they allow the Bulls to beat them scoring 97 and 98 points. Either they can't beat the Bulls or they can't play on national TV??
Frustrating game as the Pistons could never get beyond a six point lead and allowed Nocioni to dominate them in the 3rd and 4th qtr. In fact Noci, Duhon and Noah scored 45 points off the bench compared to the 14 we got off our bench.
For the Pistons it was all Sheed in the first qtr scoring 13 of his 18 points then. Rip was the man in the second qtrs, hitting his first six shots, but only 3 of his next 10 and was forcing them in them up with frustration in the 3rd. Pistons did not score until about the 9:10 mark of the 4th with Billups scoring the first 12 points of the qtr and 14 of the Pistons total of 20.
Tay and Dice looked horrible out there on the offensive end going a combined 4-19 with only 4 points a piece. They each had 2 points in the first half and 2 points in the 3rd qtr. But Billups kept passing to them because Flip didn't want to play AJ, AA of Flip jr.
For the Bulls, they killed us on the boards in the first half as Ben and Joe Smith had 11 and 13 boards repectfully. However in the second hand the two of them only grabbed a total of 3 between them. I don't know what the points in the paint was, but I know they dominated the first half with them.
Who would have thought the net difference in the game was Ben's made free throws as he hit 8 of nine including 7 straight. Bad loss for the Pistons as they had a chance to put togther a possible 8 game winning streak before heading to Texas next week. Also it gives the Bulls more confidence and we don't want to be responsible for waking a sleeping giant.
Flip played his token young. Six minutes, six productive minutes, for Afflalo. Just enough to avoid being fired. Not one bit more. He is probably proud of himself for it. Wins don't matter to him. Just as long as he can keep getting away with defying Joe Dumars.
This game utterly cried for Amir Johnson to play. Jason Maxiell was in foul trouble, four fouls late in the 3rd, but he was kept in. Mohammed was totally ineffective guarding Nocioni - indeed its almost insane that Saunders even tried that for a moment. Jason was having deep trouble guarding Nocioni. Dyess had some foul trouble too. And still, no Amir Johnson, the quickest big on our team by far, and one with plenty of height to guard Nocioni. But Flip Saunders chose to lose the game rather than play a young player he is bound and determined not to play.
Hayes did nothing defensively, and yet he played. Another case where Amir would have been the better choice.
Some people may want to blame this loss on Tay. But wait a moment. You can't possibly expect more than 3 of our starters to have a crazy good scoring night. Rip, Billups, and Sheed all scored plenty. Rip started out 7 of 8. Billups scored about 23 in the 2nd half. Sheed had a blockbuster first half.
More reason to play Amir. Dyess has not been playing 30 mintues a game for us these past 3 years. What makes Flip Saunders believe he is capable of doing that now, 3 years older than he was? His absolute insistence on playing the vets, his rationalization to do so, does not make Dyess any younger. Dyess should be playing 18 or 20 minutes tops per game, whether he starts or comes off the bench. On that topic, Dyess did absolutely nothing in the first quarter. Chicago was getting all the rebounds. Both ends. Every trip. Dyess shot 2-10 for the night in all, so its not like he ever made up for it. And in the 4th, the middle was full open with Dyess in the game. No rebounding from Dyess. No D. and no scoring. But I pretty much guarantee you it won't matter. Unless Flip is fired, we can only expect the same thing next game, a DNP, for Amir Johnson while Dyess gets overplayed yet again.
Hunter did ok. Certainly nothing to write about. Certainly nothing to keep him in the rotation ahead of Stuckey when Stuckey is healthy. Not even for a minute. I'll take a 75% Stuckey any day over where Hunter is at.
To the posters who continue to defend Saunders, I say you are part of the problem, the complacency, that Dumars fights every day. Lets all get behind Dumars and send the message, the youth must play. No excuses accepted.
I hate watching this team play the Bulls. On offense it is all one on one play. The ball movement seen the last five games was gone. On D they can't contain them on the perimeter and when CHI does miss they can't get the rebound.
Lee agree with your post and comments on Flip. If tay and Dice are struggling, bring in a young wipper snapper like Amir to see how he fairs. It was obvious that neither Dice or nazr were going to stop Nocioni. Not to say that he would have schooled AMir too, but you never know if don't at least try him.. with the Pistons struggling to score, I would have even tried Flip Jr for a spell to open up the lane and penetrate as the rest of the starters appeared to be intimidated by Ben and Smith in the middle.
One of the many diffenrences between Flip and LB is that flip just can't seem to coach in crunch time as he relies on tired starters instead of fresh horses..
Did Max run into a woman named Delila? His energy seemed to be lost when his hair was cut off ??
Do you think the fans will ever start a "Fire Flip" or at least "Play Amir" chant?
Our defense sucked. Our rebounding sucked. Our ball movement sucked.
Our players don't listen to the coach. Good times!
edited to add; Watch the Bulls go off now.
OMG!!! Talk about exposing a team. Beat to death on the offensive boards because Sheed and Dyess looked like 100 year old men that played back when the ball still had laces.
Then we beat them in the 3rd qtr by 1pt, but then Skiles brought Nocioni in to play the 4 and it was over from there.
I agree wih everything Uncle Lee356 said in ref to Flip and AJ. I'm not an AJ can save the day type cat, but this game was indeed screaming for the things that AJ does well. Ernie, so-true man...so-true.
Very unhappy to hear that they lost this game. Although with Ben going 8-9 from the FT line, WTF...
I would much, much, MUCH rather have lost the New Orleans game and then won this one, rather than the other way around. Being 0-2 against the Bulls is very irritating.
just got back from the game - not a fun one to be at for sure. it really looked like the pistons said to themselves 'hey, we got 5 in a row, the bulls are too annoying to put out our best effort, let's just play lazy iso basketball and hope they shoot themselves out of a victory.'
just terrible all around. bad switches - sheed guarding guards, no rebounding, no hustle, bad calls on maxiell, iso basketball, no ball movement, no coaching, no adjustments, nothing. the crowd wasn't into it, everyone arrived late because of the early 7 PM start time, and no one around me was all that interested in the game.
i could go on and on, but i'll just agree that this would've been the perfect game for amir to come in, especially without tyrus thomas in the lineup. i also would've liked to see flip murray in the game, because we needed a change of pace and had no need for lindsey's defense and poor shooting, although he didn't play terribly. i couldn't believe how easily nocioni was getting in the lane, and how poorly our guards were defending dribble penetration, when chicago is small and slow. either way, this game was as painful to watch as the knicks game, because the bulls are not a fun team and have a collection of some of the most annoying players in the nba.
on a sidenote, there was a woman there with the biggest rump i've ever seen, when talking about ratio of its size to her body. wow. imagine a skinny woman with two bowls of jello for her butt, each the size of small watermelons. seriously she had trouble walking with those cheeks. other fun parts were vinnie johnson sitting in the suite 2 rows in front of us, and an appearance by stone cold steve austin in the crowd. then later i went out to eat at applebee's near oakland university and watched 3 guys sit in the vicinity of 2 attractive girls at the bar, hoping to talk to them. well they must've been flagged far in advance, because the girl closest to them refused to turn around and acknowledge them for at least 30 minutes, and just chatted away with her friend. the guys waited patiently, and waited, and waited, and waited...but never got their chance.
How long did you and your two buddies wait Warthog?
Was it announced as a sell-out? And was anyone actually there?
haha dre. we didn't bother lee, they don't even bother announcing sellouts anymore because it would seem silly. every game has a couple thousand empty seats, and it sucks because i can't sell them!! haha.
there was a pretty big crowd today, but like i said they arrived late and were never really into the game except for a few times in the 4th quarter. they did smooch cam, and after that was over, they panned the crowd for another couple mins and everyone was still smooching anyway. but yeah, pretty boring overall.
Flip proving why he can't win in the playoffs. He just has no clue how to make adjustments. Helen Keller could see that having a big on Nocioni was KILLING us. Outside of Max, our bigs play small, so Nocioni can guard them, but they cannot guard him. Never ONCE did Flip matchup with them by going to Jarvis at PF. It was the most obvious move on the planet, and Flip is still oblivious. He even put NAZR on him at one point!
I agree with you guys about Amir not playing. The guy is in his 3rd year here and continues to lack any trust at all from the coach. Tight game and his butt is on the bench while Dyess/Mohammed can stink it up out there.
Ultimately we can blame this loss on the Bulls playing well. I know they could not have possibly been playing this well throughout their previous 5-11 record. Something about the Pistons inspires them.
Flip has to stick with what works. Remember in Milwaukee when he took out Rip? He should of done that with Tayshaun and Dice today.
Chauncey: B+ He had a good game, but the Pistons always seem to lose when he is the leading scorer. If the Pistons would have won it would have been an A game for him.
Rip: B- He played very well until the 4th quarter. He started to force shots and go after Hinrich. It was how the whole game went, too much one on one.
Tayshaun: D Besides the throwdown on the Bulls Tayshaun provided nothing. Not only did Tay miss shots, including a wide open three that would have brought the Pistons within four late in the 4th, but he also got burned by Deng whenever the Pistons almost rallied.
Rasheed: C Sheed was great in the first quarter. I don't really care about how he did in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but he did horrible in the fourth. After he missed a tip slam he fouled Nocioni on a successful lay up. After this sequence Sheed was unaggressive on both sides of the court even though he should of dominated the last quarter.
Dice: D Dice did not do much this game just like Tayshaun.
J Max: D He has done great up to this game. His foul trouble may have been the reason.
Lindsey: C He had some nice assists, but he did not make as big of an impact as he has done in the past few games defensively.
Jarvis: C- He did not do much this game.
Nazr: C Average game.
Afflalo: C Average game.
Flip Saunders: C Besides calling post plays for Chauncey in the 4th he did not make many adjustments like he has during the winning streak.
Man the Bulls get UP every game to play us....it's so obvious. They consider it a "rivalry" of sorts. We don't really care (which isn't bad necessarily because we 'cared' during the playoffs and won). But they bring an entire different intensity than any other game when playing us.
AJ should've played--plain and simple--Flip putting in Nazr when their lineup is built off of speed and quickness was abominable.
Isn't Nocioni the slowest player on the entire Bulls roster? Why would we have to put someone quick on him to stop him from charging to the rack?
Hinrich (Hinbrick) was getting away with a lot of slapping, holding, punching etc. when he was guarding Rip.
Ben Wallace making his free throws was surprising and a big part of the Bulls win.
The microphone on Rip was disappointing..."Move Tay, Move Tay"...
Nocioni isn't that slow. What he lacks in speed, he makes up in craftiness. A couple of his drives took some pretty good ball handling and required tough finishes with the left.
By the way, how many times did we nail him in the head? I'm glad that none of those were called flagrant fouls. Nazr really clocked him, thereby taking one more step toward becoming our enforcer.
Good points, they should have been pulled. So much for not tolerating complacency. Made such a big deal about it when Rip has a bad game.
Maxiel seemed to suffer from bad calls. There was that barrage of bad calls to end the 1st half where Maxiel was the victim. Refs appeared to make up for it to start the 3rd but it was too late for Maxiel.
Flip needs to stick with who is doing well. I am hoping to see him go with what works in Charlotte. I think Flip will pull out the starters if they are playing poorly, but I think he will only do this against the weaker teams. I am hoping he gets the confidence to do this against the teams that the Pistons might have to face up to the Finals (Chicago, Cleveland, Boston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Dallas etc.) This is the time to work with things.
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