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Home Chicago Bulls Friday Dec 7 2012

Discussion in 'December 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Joakim Noah

    30 pts - 23 rebounds - 6 assists - 2 steals - 2 blocks

    Max, Dre and Moose combined

    26 pts - 18 rebounds - 2 assists - 3 steals - o blocks

    Pathetic. Noah didn't even play great, he just played hard and smart.

    People can and will moan about the rotations, but when your three bigs get outplayed this badly (don't even ask me about Boozer's 20+ pts) you're not going to win any ball games. We're lucky it was as close as it was.
     
  2. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Frustrating game for Pistons as once again, as coach Lfranco substitution patters....IMO, may have cost us the game. Pistons led by 17 (53-36) with 4 mins left in the second qtr and were outscored 14-2 to close out the half. Frank subbed out Maggette and Stuckey for Prince and Knight and the roof caved in. (No coincidence that those two led the team with a double digit minus in the +/- category.).... He probably should have taken out Singler too, but in his attempt to get 80% of starters back on the floor to close it out, we probably lost the game there.

    Or you can say it was another poorly played 3rd quarter that saw the Pistons get outscored by 9 as the deciding factor that lost this game..(again) since the Pistons won two and tied the other quarters. I cannot fathom what they talk about at halftime, but the Pistons have played poorly in the third quarter in all four games played in December, only winning the one where they had the 17 point half time lead vs the Cavs...(and they had to hold on to win that one)... Anybody notice that with the exception of Singler, all of the starters played the first 11 minutes of the 3rd qtr?

    I am all in favor of Dre getting his 22 mins, but is Monroe sucking that much where he has to spend literally the whole 4th qtr on the bench? Why aren't they out there playing together in the 4th??

    Say what you want about Noah, but dude had 30 pts....and that's not the impressive stat....he also grabbed 23 rebounds!! The Pistons team only got 28. He also had 10 offensive boards....the Pistons got five.... Both he and Boozer where 12-19 from the floor. Noah's were put back layups and Boozers were fade aways over Dre or dunks over everyone...

    I should have just take Ms Dre to a movie and fast forwarded thru the highlights,,which ended in the second qtr. This team is in every game until the third qtr and then the coach finds away to set up the players to lose.

    Whatever happen the pre poked in the eye Kyle Singler? The guy has all but disappeared on the offense since then. Monroe is MIA too compared the guy who played in the palace last season...

    Stuckey had a great game with 24 pts, 7 assists and made all of his FT. He also had the teams only block.

    Knight got us off on the right track with three early treys, but didn't look sharp at all in the second half.

    Dre and BoT kind of kept us in the game, but we got nothing from Magette so maybe time to introduce Daye or one of the rookies in the lineup since JJ and Bynum are out of the rotation....and we are still losing....
     
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  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Its all about rotations. And our coach does not get it. The entire time, from start to finish, with not one second of the game being an exception, the coach chose to play a front court duo that could not clear the boards nor defend the interior.

    JMAX is too short to be a starter in the NBA, and CV is a total joke on defense. Between them, they "covered" every second of power forward time.

    Speaking of CV. Us fans have already seen long stretches in the past where a coach foolishly tried to win games with Villanueva as part of the rotation. It has never, and will never work. For Dumars to still be hanging on to this player, and hiring a coach unknowledgeable enough in NBA basketball to actually play him, he gets an F toward his job as a GM.

    Our starting and backup point guards scored a ton between them. Singler still has not had a good stretch since his eye injury a couple games back. Our best run was with CV in the game - but coach overplayed the guy and let his lack of defense give it all back in the end. Maggette looks a bit better in this game on defense - and showed a lot of patience in waiting for good scoring ops to show up with several other decent offensive players in with him. Kelser actually stated how much he loves the combo of Stuckey and Knight. Really. In the second half he turned around and said how horrible our offense was running - with those two in the backcourt at the time. You trade for a good outside shooting power forward, and play them with a solid 3 piont shooting small forward, and just maybe Stuckey and Knight can co-exist in the same backcourt. Maybe. But Stuckey is not a shooting guard.

    It is interesting to note that our best offensive unit in the game (Stuckey, Maggette, Singler, CV, and Drummond) includes Drummond, not Monroe. I am starting to imagine that despite Monroe being 2 years ahead in NBA experience, Drummond is already the better player of the 2. Anyone else got an opinion on that?

    Three things we need to do right now. Replace Maggette with anyone of our 3 younger wing players, Daye, Middleton, or English. Reduce Tay's minutes so one of our three wing players, or JJ, can get some time at small forward - or shooting guard. Three, replace CV in the rotation, and reduce JMAX's minutes back down to maybe 18 minutes a game coming off the bench. We really can't afford to have even 18 minutes of JMAX mucking up the power forward position - but hey, I am being practical in talking about what we could do with what we got. Both Monroe and Drummond could have played a lot more in this one, for instance, and we could have Kravtsov dressed and playing a bit. What we got is totally unacceptable as ever passing for Piston basketball. This bad of D is not the Piston way.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Boozer plays PF. Noah plays C.
     
  5. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    This was a game lost on the boards; getting outrebounded almost singlehandedly by Noah alone is unacceptable (Noah 23, Pistons 28!). Unlike the game against Golden State where it was the porous perimeter D that did us in, the Bulls killed us from inside. Boozer and Noah especially got whatever they wanted against every single one of the Pistons' big men, which then led to wide open 3s, putbacks, easy dunks, etc. No one will win anything that way, and our leading rebounder sat collecting dust for most of the game (though he was also mostly sucking, his rebounding is far more reliable than BoT's).

    Greg - this is iirc his third consecutive bad game. The Pistons simply must get more out of their best player than 13 points and 5 boards when it is accompanied by porous defense and a less than stellar FG% (he was 4 of 10 before the layup and dunk at the end of the game). He is supposedly our best player and he got benched for bad defense and poor effort. He may never be a good defender, but the least he could do is not look like the big man version of Carmelo Anthony whining about calls and not getting back on defense quickly enough. That missed layup of his was, as roscoe mentioned, symbolic of the overall ineffectiveness of the team's big men.

    Rodney played well. Him playing with the second unit allows him more freedom and a faster overall unit as Maggette and Andre are far more willing to run the floor than Monroe or Tayshaun who stops more breaks than I can bother to count. BoT so far has also helped tremendously with the spacing and scoring. At long last Stuck may have found his niche.

    Brandon was fine, seemed to be moving better than he was against Golden State. He scored 21, but didn't have as much of an impact in the second half as he did initially as Chicago's defense clamped down on the offense and Isotayshaun took over. Having Stuck in the game also takes the ball out of his hands and turns him into the SG. Assist/Turnover ratio took a hit too.

    Tayshaun - this game featured Isotayshuan aplenty. If I never see him palm the ball for half the shot clock again it'll be too soon.

    Max - he started off decently enough against Boozer, but couldn't sustain it. He and Monroe were primarily responsible for allowing Chicago's offense to get out of its rut, having awful awareness on defense and allowing Chi's frontcourt to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted, Noah especially. Having to take the ball out of the net constantly also allowed Chicago to set their defense and further stymied the Pistons' offense.

    Kyle - he played badly. He looked a step slow all game long and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. Without his activity, the starting unit just loses the flow it once had. Rookie Wall?

    Andre - He was no match for Noah and Boozer, and it would be unfair to expect him to do it all against such a good front court when coach left him to man the paint with BoT for company. He was active early and did marginally better than Monroe, but he got torched just the same.

    BoT - at least 4 or 5 of Stuck's assists came on BoT 3s; that's how well he was shooting the ball. But he really, really sucks on defense and his rebounding is atrocious (2 boards in 20 minutes); Boozer owned him and when Andre was forced to help him, it then allowed Noah to grab the boards and get the put backs. Despite the nice scoring numbers, I would be surprised if he didn't give up more than that on the other end.

    Corey was decent, actually. Defensively he seemed active, and he wasn't hogging the ball.

    Coach Frank - Outside of him not playing Monroe and Drummond together the problem for him was pairing Greg (a bad defender) with BoT (a worse defender) for stretches of the game. Andre is fast and athletic enough to cover some of BoT's defensive shortcomings but Monroe is not, and in a game where the front court was getting shredded from the very beginning, I don't see how you could justify playing such defensive liabilities together even for short stretches.

    They competed and never gave up against the short handed but still superior Bulls team, and perhaps that's all we can really ask for right now. Hopefully they bounce back well in the game tomorrow.
     
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  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Lee, yes, Drummond has looked better than Monroe simply because Drummond usually has more impact on the game. I still believe in Monroe but I wonder about his work ethic and how well he is being coached on how to improve his game. At times, his play is just puzzling for a 3rd year player now. I would wait until next year to see, as Drummond becomes the starting center, whether Monroe can play along side him at forward. If not, right now, I would keep Drummond of the two.

    The Pistons needed to play both Drummond and Monroe against this team. It became obvious but not to the coach who manages his games by formula. If there was a way to keep CV on the floor for offense with those two, it would have been better. But regardless, yes, he ran CV too long. He waited again too long to substitute in the 3rd quarter.

    Also, this was one team (without Rose) where the Piston guards actually had the advantage. Stuckey should have been rammed down their throats. Instead, the coach took him out like formula in the 2nd quarter. Looks like Knight needs to shoot early in a game and he too, against this team's guards, posed problems. But you know, the more I watch Knight, the more he looks like a shooting guard. I have some doubt that he will be the point guard of the future for this team. Whatever turns out, the team must draft a point guard and not do a 5 year experiment on Knight as they did with Stuckey. I agree with Lee that I would rather see Stuckey playing the point however. I also don't believe in a shooting guard who can't shoot.

    The Pistons may well have lost this game but for sure, the coach didn't address the weaknesses in the game tonight or exploit the team's rare strength at guard.
     
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  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Monroe and Drummond combined to play to play 4 minutes more than Noah in this game. Again, aside from ejection or fouling out I can't see a reason to only play Monroe 25 minutes.

    Another game, another loss and Monroe and Drummond did not share the court.
     
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Singler has been so good that we probably take him for granted. He almost has to be overwhelmed and has probably hit the dreaded rookie who isn't really a rookie because he played a year in Europe wall.

    That second unit of the Pistons is really coming along nicely. They're going to be the talk of the NBA soon.

    The first and second units of the Pistons are like the 2 roommates in the old sitcoms who get in a fight and draw a line through their apartment so they don't have to interact.

    Watching Stuckey play bums me out.

    How bad are the Pistons running a play out of a timeout?

    I love Noah.
     
  9. Susie914

    Susie914 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I hate Noah
     
  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Do you like the way he plays though? You have to give him credit for working hard and really enjoying himself out there. He's not out there flopping and whining.

    He is quite a contrast to the flopping Side Show Bob. He is more like Side Spin Bob.
     
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  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I like Noah. I wish he was a Piston. To me, being able to hit a shot is a lot less important than playing with energy, strength and consistency. It is rare that Noah gets outworked. I see Moose get outworked all of the time.

    The Pistons lack a leader, and it probably should be Stuckey, but when I look out there at Stuckey trying to lead, I feel like I am watching Jerry Stackhouse.

    At this point, my hope of winning 40 games is pretty low. I am not demoralized, but these guys aren't giving me much to be hopeful about.
     
  12. Sramud Samoht

    Sramud Samoht Second Round Draft Pick

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    I would like to know your opinion about this: we have a roster when 12 players come from draft picks ( and the highest number was 7 ) and only three from trades or signing FAs ( and none of those has never been close to stardom: actually they are more fillers than anything else). Is it realistic to expect to build a powerful team based on that ? Thanks.
    Go Pistons.
     
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  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Not a powerful team. Just a team that plays hard every night. That doesn't matter how the franchise acquired you. It's a matter of pride.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Noah might be the best defensive big man in the L. It is incredible the combo of the amount of court he covers and the minutes he plays. He is an animal.
     
  15. max

    max All-Star

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    If someone told you to build a team of any players from any team with the restriction that they had to have been drafted #7 or higher - you could build a pretty good team. Its not so much where our guys were drafted as it is that we are not making many trades or signing FA's any more. When was the last time we brought in a new vet that played a significant role?

    Only player I get excited about anymore is Drummond. If he started and played the mins we probably would have won. No excuse for blowing this game. Rose , Rip are out and they blow a 17 point lead right before half time.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Try, Scouting Report.
     
  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    That is my thinking as well.
     

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