Bring back Larry

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Buckeyes#1, Nov 11, 2006.

  1. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Larry Brown cannot and should not return to the Pistons. Those bridges are all burned and long since turned to sawdust.

    That being said, it will be a public relations problem, but Flip has to go. He's terrible. The team is going to suffer more in the pocketbook with all of the losses than they will from firing him.
     
  2. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Do you think he would bring wins this time around Low?
     
  3. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Honestly? Well think of LB's X's and O's versus the ones we're seeing right now.

    DEFINITELY.
     
  4. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Actually...ash. You don't get sawdust from burning do you? :)
     
  5. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    drafting darko and not developing him was a mistake. this wasn't joe's fault. he until this year had a hands off policy with his coaches. joe's mistake was trading darko away for beans. darko is being productive off the bench for orlando in about 45 games of nba experience. we should have gave them that his first year.
    how is it a mistake getting rid of a guy that doesn't want to be here. he didn't want to be here during a playoff run. that's just terrible. just because the coach after lb isn't that good doesn't mean that losing lb was a bad thing.
    losing ben for nothing was a mistake. ben needed to go but we should have got something in return. we at least should have kept darko and arroyo. if we had those two we'd be in a different situation this year.
     
  6. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    JACKPOT!!! DING-DING-DING!!! "Please see the young lady at the cashiers desk for your payout...AND as a token for your Casino LB patronage, please accept our gift of a commemorative Flip Saunders Piston jersey!"
     
  7. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I couldn't agree with this statement more. No question LB was a helluva coach, but in year 2 he didn't even have a capable assistant on staff. This had Joe D talking to Chuck Daly bout comin back to coach us through the playoffs, for cryin out loud. That is one headache/worry we didn't need going into the post season.

    Surely there is another coach out there who knows a lil sumpthin bout Xs and Os. Paul Silas is an idea.
     
  8. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Perhaps I'm in error...maybe drafting Darko at that time was not Joe's mistake. But as the Piston's championship window of opportunity opened after Sheed was signed, there was no way Darko was going to get developmental minutes from Joe, Larry, or Flip. Chaulk it up to Darko being in the wrong place at the wrong time if you want.

    I see the whole LB thing from a different perspective...just like you see Darko from a different perspective. IMO...LB is still in the NBA's top 5 coaches...while Flip looks completely lost after 10+ years in the league. Which brings me to my foolishly overlooked Joe mistake #2.5 on my list:

    2.5) Hiring Flip Saunders

    IMO...Ben didn't want or need to go...Flip's 'gameplan' forced his hand.
     
  9. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    even if we didn't play darko trading him away for impact players would have made the draft a great one. the problem is we didn't play him and we didn't trade him for something of major worth.

    what's the good of being a top coach if you're only good for 1/2 a season?? lb wears out his welcome or wants to leave after 1/2 a season. flip wasn't a bad hire in my opinion. last season flip was coaching with his hands tied behind his back having to deal with the malcontent. flip was also the best of the rest at the time. lb didn't win a title until he came to detroit either.

    pat riley's gameplan forced joe's hand. ben was our downfall last year.
     
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I'll give ya a 3 for 3 on this post.
     
  11. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ok, in what bizarro universe were you going to get impact players for the HVC?

    LB had the coaching tools to win a title in Detroit. Flip wouldn't have manufactured a title in the WNBA. Flip is coaching this season with BOTH hands tied behind his back.....covering his own ass. Funny how everything this season is the players fault with him....they didn't hit shots, they didn't bring energy, they didn't bring effort, blah blah blah...

    Getting your guys to bring energy and effort is YOUR JOB as coach. So, his solution to the problem is to toss the players under the bus. Well, news flash, you have to have their respect in order for that to work. The Pistons players respected LB (even if they griped about him)...they are tolerating Flip.

    Funny how Pat Riley's gameplan forced Joe's hand, but when it was The Cola's gameplan and Doc Rivers' gameplan, Mike Dunleavy Sr.'s gamplan and Phil Jackson's gameplan that Joe's hand was never forced. Flip allowing himself to fall victim to the "gameplan" was our downfall
     
  12. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    al harrington is an impact player in my opinion.

    the trade wasn't just for darko either. it was carlos arroyo included. who is a very capable backup and he can start for a lot of teams in the league. joe could have got an impact player in return for them. instead he got cato who we never used and a middle first round pick.


    even lb said he didn't think he would have to coach effort. this team had a lot of success before flip and that is causing the lack of energy and effort in my opinion. it's not flip's lack of coaching abiltiy.

    the rules change deemphasized the defensive only player. pat riley using that no longer as effective defensive only player against the team on offense forced joe's hand. nobody has ever used hack a ben with such determination and committment. flip didn't fall victim to the gameplan. he rarely took ben out when he should have. ben should have barely played in the miami series in my opinion. he wasn't effective on defense and we played 4 on 5 on offense. like flip said the one quarter when he sat him down for dice is the quarter we outscored miami.
     
  13. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Just say NO to Larry. I think that bridge has been burned. The problem is Flips coaching skills. Flip's one dimensional approach and his lack of stressing and teaching on the defensive end of the ball is what is hurting us now. Flip is the perfect patsy for the Organization.
     
  14. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Given our championship window, we couldn't afford to play him...thus he had no major worth to use as trade bait.

    You labeling Ben as a malcontent makes me wanna puke. That guy gave every ounce of energy in every game since he came to Detroit...there is very little chance Detroit would have come back to NBA prominence without his hard work. I think your label is very ungrateful and unappreciative of what he did here.

    I used the word 'gameplan' facetiously. It's been over a year now for Flip and its as if he is staring at a blank clipboard. Flip had no reply for Riley except to sit Ben...have you checked the outcome of his 'decision'? We lost...and there is no way you are going cause me to blame our 4-time DPOY excelling in rebounding, shot-blocking, and steals...for the Pistons missing an EC championship.

    Plain and simple...Flip can't manage his players...so they manage him.
     
  15. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    You, my friend, have officially left this planet's gravitational influence and I, for one, see no need to continue this debate.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Brother Low, bball jay's spaceship left for the Darko nebula (or was that nebulous Darko?) a long long time ago.

    (just kidding jay... )
     
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If this thread was a contest, bballJay would be the winner. Saying that he has left the planet is downright silly. He has made more good points in this thread than anyone else. (By the way, this comes from someone that usually disagrees with bballJay.)
     
  18. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    then we should have traded the pick before we even drafted him. darko did have major trade value. al harrington is a great player and atlanta wanted to make that trade. after leading the league in blocks in the preseason i'm sure there were plenty of teams willing to take darko. we also gave away arroyo in that trade. i just can't believe we couldn't have got something better for darko + arroyo. we closed our championship window by making that trade.

    he ran out of energy in that orlando game where he refuses to come back into the game. yes his hard work helped bring us back but once he got an ego and became a malcontent i was through with him. his exit from the pistons was a stab in the back. it erased all he did before that for me.

    actually the quarter he sat ben out is the quarter where we outscored miami. did you check the outcome of leaving ben on the court?? we lost those games too. i blame ben's status of being a lockerroom cancer on us losing the ec championship. we were clicking on all cylinders until ben put some sugar in the tank cause he wasn't getting enough touches on offense and flip wouldn't practice defense enough.
     
  19. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    when your guy that is only a defensive stopper isn't stopping anybody why would you leave him on the court??? when your defensive stopper is being used against you as basically a free turnover at the cost of a foul to antoine walker or somebody why do you leave him on the court?? please tell me what was ben's contribution to the miami series that justified him being on the court??

    he had one highlight block i'll give him that.
     
  20. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I can't argue with you on any of these points. However I would say that Flip's attitude towards Ben probably fueled the problem more. It is the coaches job to atleast listen to a players concern's and address them. Larry Brown did that by giving Ben a couple touches at the begining of the game where it did not hurt the team when the game was on the line.

    I actually think we lost the Eastern Conference title when all 4 of the Pistons made the All Star team. The got that recognition they were seeking and the fire just did not burn as hot anymore.
     

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