Discussion in 'January 2008' started by Dlev59, Jan 3, 2008.
You're right. He has to be allowed to fail a little. Throw him into the deep end.
The Boston announcers mentioned that Pierce went 5-16 in the first game when they were talking about how poorly he played in their pre-game ramblings. They also said something like "I doubt he'll do that again."
Well, thanks to Prince, Pierce went 5-16 again. Remember that he is their leading scorer, so that is pretty good containment.
In fact, their big three were very contained. 12-36 shooting. 18 FTA. 20 rebounds (KG with only 5!). 11 assists. 11 personal fouls. 8 turnovers.
I don't think we can do any better than that. Especially when you consider that Chauncey held their starting point guard to 3 points and ZERO assists.
Really, our only problem was that Glen Davis got 8 layups with 5 and1's and they made 10 more free throws (despite the fact that we fouled them fewer times).
All of the criticism going around about how our offense was stagnant... or course it was. The Celtics are the best defensive team in the league. We got a taste of our own medicine. Did you notice how stagnant their offense was too? I mean both teams made 31 shots. If Davis would have stayed quiet, we would have held them to 26 made shots or so and they would feel violated.
Yeah, the Pistons' problems on offense wouldn't have been decisive if it hadn't been for all those second chance and hustle points the Celtics were getting throughout the game after the first quarter, but it's frustrating because a lot of those should have been preventable. Rondo was indeed shut down, and Pierce had another bad shooting night from the floor, but the Pistons did have a "point guard"-type problem on defense down the stretch in their near-total inability to contain the penetration that resulted in all those layups for Big Baby. Most of that was coming off drives by Pierce.
Have to agree with Lpgrl that this happens too often in big games (the last two ECF). Our offense gets jammed up and we miss a ton of jumpers.
Agree with you that their main guys were taken care of defensively. Also as Lee mentioned, Garnett was somewhat contained.
Dyss has been a nice player but he may be overmatched in what we are asking him to do. And when either Dyss or Sheed get into foul trouble, we are short on the big rotation. Amir would have been a better bet in retrospect but there must be some reason the staff does not trust him. So, I expect a move out of Joe.
We need Maxiel playing as a starter because he will get the other teams front line in foul trouble or he will get easy scores. If we make the other team pay attention to him, then the game will open up for us offensively.
Dyess did a pretty good job on KG.
The reason you see these offensive struggles in the ECF is that we tend to be matched up against the 2nd or 3rd best defensive team in the league at that stage. We were stagnant because nobody could get open. The players trying to pass the ball were smothered too. But that was exactly what we were doing to them.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no easy answer against defense like that. In fact, we are the best type of team to beat them, because they can't key on our superstars, we take care of the ball, and we spread the floor well with our 3-point shooters.
Think about why KG didn't get many defensive rebounds in a game where we missed a ton of shots. He was pulled away from the basket.
Glen Davis Maxielled us.
I think some are overreacting. I think emotions got Dice out of the game and hurt the Pistons more than their bad execution at times. The Pistons were manhandled on the boards and took some horrible shots, but they barely lost.
After a night of watching the game twice and sleeping on it, I have had a chance to calm down somewhat and say lets move on to the next game. This game meant more to the Celtics than the Pistons, but now the Pistons should still take tomorrow to review the tape and their defiencies before they head to Texas.
They can still win 55+ games and grab at least the # 2 seed, but like all years they have to adjust or prepare to get to the finals. In years past the question was did we have a body to stop Shaq.... Now it's what do we need to stop Garnett or Baby or Pierce...better yet who will be our stopper in the middle to help Sheed and Max? Certainly can't rely on Tay, Dice or Primo. (or C-Webb)
At this point we know AJ is not the answer, but when will Flip give him the minutes in non-garbage time to get better?? If we are deep, play everybody!!
Those who think we will get better have a point, but guess what folks: so will the Celtic role players....because Doc has to play them. No need for a knee jerk reaction now as we have the second best defense, but when your chief rival has the #1 defense in 4 key categories, you need to be able to counter it for that ultimate meeting in May. In other words, it is time for Joe to start reviewing the rosters of the non-contenders to find that extra defensive stopper (who can also score in the paint a little and grab some boards) and deal Jr, Primo or Fabio.
Dyess did a pretty good job on KG? Please tell me what play you are talking about. I will be glad to go review it. I've watched the game twice now, and I sure did not catch any good defense from Dyess on KG.
With Flip's offensive mind/genius/playbook, this should not be an issue.
As far as I can see, Flip has no offensive ingenuity, unless you count repeatedly hoisting up 25-foot J's.
I didn't expect a Pistons win last night so I'm not bothered by any of it, but this Boston team will give Detroit fits come playoff time. I see a Game 7 at the Fleet in Detroit's not-so-distant future.
Sounds like you want to get Artest. I'm all for it.
They would get a bunch of depth at different positions. They are all expiring contracts. And they get Artest out of there.
Billups/ Stuckey/ Hunter
Rip/ Afflalo/ ACKER
Prince/ Artest/ MEJIA
Dyess/ Maxiell/ RODNEY WHITE
Sheed/ Johnson/ Samb
The zoo crew would be complete. The only downside is that we would have to go crawling back to all those guys we cut so that we could have some guys to fill the suits.
I'm mainly satisfied with the way that he helped limit KG to 3 rebounds in the 2nd half. Even on a few of Garnett's makes, he made it really tough for him. Also, the some of the plays where Dice got the fouls were pretty good.
Dyess's D was not good when he was off KG. Maybe he was too concerned about helping to stay on his own man.
I have seen it twice too and IMHO both Dyess and Hayes were repeatedly a half step slow on the defensive end. The only defense that contained KG was his emotions and him being in foul trouble on the bench. He may not have scored a ton of points, but his leadership while he was on the floor was enough to have a few Piston players over play him and leave others open.
Agree. The loss isn't the thing. It is the pattern of the loss. We have seen this before.
Dice may not have been helped by the refs on Garnett, but he is a bit undersized and not as quick as needed for what we are asking him to do. Plus, he is playing too many minutes. Dice has played admirably and has looked better than Webber of last year overall in the starter role. But we didn't win it with Webber.
Maxiel should now start. Maxiel will put a lot of pressure on their starters from the get go. Do you risk a foul early or let Maxiel get an easy score? I see Maxi as an early option and a way of taking pressure off of our guards.
AJ should have played last night, especially in the 4th quarter.
Seems to me you said "AJ isn't ready yet" on another thread.
Figure it out.
We were winning handily - 2nd best record in the league
We had beaten Boston in Boston
Keep AJ on the bench working hard in practice and getting garbage time since it appeared that we didn't need him to beat Boston. No reason to rush him.
We have proven that we are not the best team in the East and will most likely have a difficult time of beating Boston in the playoffs.
We are so far ahead of Orlando that unless we have a major injury and even then 2nd seed is a lock either up or down from there.
Play AJ and give him the experience.
He won't hurt us enough to make us worse than Orlando
He may make us better enough to beat Boston
Got to be flexible in life and in your thinking.
New facts, old decisions need to be reviewed and revised if beneficial to do so.
Playing AJ now is a total no risk situation
We may not beat Boston with him but based on the Cavs series and yesterday we aren't going to beat Boston in the playoffs without him
Get flexible, Get Real
Play AJ Now.
Are you sure?
There is one more game to play between these two teams before the playoffs. Let`s see which way the wind blows for ya then........
I had about 20 hours to think about it since our loss last night.
That was enough time.
It won't happen though, at least not right away.
It will be interesting to see if AJ gets any burn in TX, win or lose.
It should be mandatory that he get some burn in Texas whether we are ahead or behind. If you are going to just give him Darko minutes, then just leave him at home with Hunter. I am tired of this he is not ready yet. All you can learn in garbage time is how to fight for a chance to shoot when you are playing against other scrubs fighting for a chance to impress the coach. He has got to play with a teacher/mentor/vet on the floor in real time vs all-pros and not all-crubs!!
If rookie, Baby Shaq can light up our defense for 16 in the 4th quarter, we need to look elsewhere than what we had on the floor last night. AJ is the most likely candidate.
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