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Away Boston Celtics Wednesday, December 18, 2013

Discussion in 'December 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Hey George!! Those are just rumors.
     
  2. del

    del Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Well wasn't a particular pretty game, but it chalks up another W and gets us one game closer to that magical .500

    Some quick observations:
    I like Josh on the block, but teams will start to double like the Celts tonight and he's gotta work out to move it quickly out to get an open look elsewhere - but it would help if we had a knockdown 3 shooter on the team
    Knockdown 3 shooter in mind, Singler is not helping this. I know he has got better, but that is because pretty much the only 3s he is taking is the short side one. Tonight he took some from the longer range, wide open = misses.
    Iso on Jennings wasn't working late, not sure why Cheeks went to it a couple of times. For the most part BJ was good tonight though.
     
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  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A lot of good stuff in this writeup. But I will correct two things. One, we did not start clawing back in that 2nd quarter until Singler left the game. Second, Singler does not need to get scored upon directly by "his man" to be the problem with our defense. Breakdown the film, see how Boston attacked us with Singler in. You will note, they attacked at Singler, and quickly exploited us as soon as we double teamed to help Singler. In not one instance did we let Singler try to defend on his own. Some may think this is a bad choice, and that people should stay home. People who have that opinion have not noticed the simple fact that Singler is incapable of guarding any of the players he got the double team help for. Wallace, for instance, is way too much of a basketball player for Singler to ever dream of guarding.
     
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree with this statement. The Celtics really only took advantage of Singler's poor defense on 2 to 3 scores the entire game, though.
     
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    7 times in the first half, 3 times in the 2nd. The rest of the problem this game for Singler was zero rebounds, which also contributed to points for them, as well as of course points we did not get.
     
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Of those 10 times, was Singler in the game for each of them? I know you often blame Will Bynum for screwing the team up, even when he is on the bench.
     
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  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    You know, you are right. For making the other team get the feeling that they have no competition out there, building all that confidence, I should blame Singler for several more baskets, thanks for the suggestion and consider it done.
     
  8. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    You do have a point - while Wallace didn't score, he did have several assists and a couple rebounds. Without having the film in front of me, I don't have the ability to adequately rebut your assertions that Singler sucked down help defense, but I will point out that other than during that 2-minute span where Boston ran up Detroit, Boston shot 16/38 (42%). So the assertion that Singler needing help defense killed Detroit feels, to me, like baised assessment based on a small sample size; in reality, Boston shot 22/45 (48.9%) for 48 points when he was in the game, and 18/35 (51.4%) for 38 points when he wasn't. Now, you might look at that and think that Boston had a lot more open looks because of Singler, but you might recognize 20 points missing from that total.

    That 20-point difference is because of free throws. Boston was 5/6 during the 26 minutes Singler played, and 15/16 in the 24 minutes he didn't. Boston didn't have any and-1's, so you can effectively add three fouled shots to Singler's units' totals and 8 fouled shots to his non-units' totals. If you do, that puts the shot ratio at 48 to 46, which is a pretty consistent with a 25.5 : 23.5 minutes played:not played ratio.

    So the end result is that the Pistons gave up fewer points per minute while he was in there (and that's including the 16 point, 2.5 minute barrage at the end of the first when that awful lineup was in the game) than they did when he wasn't, because Boston shot a lower FG% and fewer FTs. To me it looks like that "covering his bad defense" stuff is just confirmation bias hogwash.
     
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  9. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Also, as far as rebounds, Boston had 8 total offensive rebounds. 3 were by Sullinger, 1 by Bass, and 1 by Humphries, who are all bigs. The other three were from Green (1) and Wallace (2).
    Those rebounds:
    10:44 (1st): Pistons' team: Jennings/KCP/Smith/Monroe/Drummond. Green (Smith guarding) missed a shot, then grabbed his own rebound, and missed the put-back. Smith rebounded.
    1:10 (1st): Pistons' team: Billups/Bynum/Singler/Smith/Harrleson. Singler misses corner three-point shot, Avery rebounds, goes coast-to-coast, misses lay-up. Wallace tips-in miss.
    2:35 (3rd): Pistons' team: Billups/Singler/Smith/Monroe/Harrelson. Crawford (Singler guarding) missed a shot, Wallaced missed the tip-in, Monroe rebounded.

    Hard to say that Singler is at fault for any of those, though you could make the case that he should have gotten back on defense, although doing so after a corner three and a long rebound to box out a guy as athletic as Gerald Wallace is not an easy play for most SFs. Now, of course, he didn't get any actual rebounds, but it's not like his inability to box out led to extra possessions or anything.
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This court finds Singler not guilty.
     
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  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Was just looking at some stats-

    Singler has the 2nd best 2 point FG% on the team behind Drummond at .568.
    He's tied for 1st in FT% at .833.
    He gets fouled at the same rate as Andre Drummond and B. Jennings.

    He has as many 3 point makes at Stuckey and Billups combined.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    A Pistons legend in the making.
     
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  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    WTF are wrong with his hands?!?!
     
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  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He was addicted to guitar hero at that point in time.
     
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  15. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I know you're the guy with the Synergy account... any idea what opponents are shooting against him?
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I don't have an account. Except for video, you can get access to this type of stuff for free on their site.

    They shoot terribly against him. 0.83 points per possession. Spot up jump shots are the most common attempt against him by far, and they convert at 28.1% (16 for 57) on the season. He has fouled them 1.6% of the time. They shoot 27.5% against him from three point land overall (14 for 51).

    Josh Smith gives up threes at 38.7%. And therein lies the problem.
     
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Whoa!
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    If you don't have the game taped, why? You can analyze all you want, by the data, but I have the game recorded, and know exactly which plays I am talking about. Do me a favor, find a way to record the game, then we can talk about individual plays.

    For now, know this, the reason we fell behind by 21 points after Singler entered the game, was Singler. (from 8 down when he entered the game.) Also, do not forget to mention the most important stat, Singler was minus 6 in his minutes - the team was otherwise plus 7 with him out of the game. Just one game though, keep paying attention, great, but record the game if you really care to see what is going on. There are very few people who can see, on one viewing, everything that is going on in a game.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You're constantly pointing out negative +/- games when he happens to have them, but ignore the bigger sample size +/- data. In this measure, he's been better than Stuckey, Drummond, Mitchell, Jennings, Jerebko, Villanueva, and... Siva.

    Give our highest hustle, 2nd highest efficiency, defense spreading, lockdown defender a break.

    I know that the odds of him making an all star team are about the same as the odds of Siva making an NBA jump shot before his career is over, but he's still a great bench player.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Kyle Singler has been a big part of our success. Just looking at +/- doesn't tell the story. Certainly it doesn't reflect the quality of the opposition, nor the quality of his teammates on court with him. It doesn't reflect time and score. If Singler is -5 in one part of the game, that doesn't prove that anyone else would have been + in the same minutes. They might have been even more negative.

    Singler is not a great player, but by focusing on him, while ignoring the dodgy play of Smith and others game to game, seems to me to miss the larger point.
     
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