Billups vs. Iverson

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by SmartIversonFan, Jan 26, 2009.

  1. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    This thread's goal is to bring peace.

    I always thought Chauncey was overrated, and Rip and Tayshaun were
    under-appreciated. Don't get me wrong, the guy can lead a ball club.
    I'm just really tired of all the blame being put on Ivo and all the
    praise going to Billups.

    STATISTICALLY, Iverson trumps Billups in almost every category.
    The biggest knock on Ivo is his FG %, but you know what, Billups is
    an even worse shooter! Billups has shot under 40% six times in his career. Iverson only had two "under 40" seasons, and shot a career-best
    45.8% last year (and 45.1% the year before).

    Iverson doesn't pass? His career average in assists is greater than
    Billups' avg, but of course Ivo played a lot more minutes. So maybe
    that's negated.

    Turnovers, FT% and 3-pt% is where Chauncey shines. However, Ivo's
    FT% is pretty good. He was mediocre at FTs out of college, but worked
    on it every year until he became a reliable 80% guy. If you throw out
    the first 3 years of his career, his career FT% is in the 80s (78% w/out).

    Points, FG%, Steals, Rebounds, Assists, you name it. Better. Period.
    So let's not call him "inefficient" on the forums anymore.
    Ok? I'm not even going to get into individual accomplishments, because
    that would be petty.

    LEADERSHIP isn't something you can really measure, but obviously,
    Chauncey is great at bringing chemistry to a team. The fact is, if
    a good team is missing a starting point guard and you give Chauncey
    a prominent role, the team will improve. With Ivo, you have to
    build a team around him. He's a superstar and a scorer. That's how it
    always works. The trade was a business move for cap space. That's
    the harsh reality of the situation.


    Let's just be harsher on Curry's impossible job of managing all the talent
    on his team. :)
  2. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    I notice the word defense was not used once in that post. Interesting.

    And neither AI or Billups are the Kings of efficiency offensively. However, Chauncey hits enough triples and FT's to make up for it...

    Career Points Per Shot:
    AI- 1.22
    CB- 1.36

    I can complain about AI's chucking just as much as I did about Chauncey's, because both take a lot of those "WTF?" shots.

    Either way, no one has ever claimed that AI was bad at putting up numbers.
  3. Jewelz0376

    Jewelz0376 First Round Draft Pick

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    I can't help but think that the main reason why u created this thread was to start Billups vs Iverson argument..

    I'm of the biggest pistons fans out there...but seriously who cares about AI's career stats...or what he's done in previous seasons...Just because he's had a better career than Billups doesn't mean he's playing better basketball them him right now..cuz Billups is out playing AI this year...Right now I don't care about AI's stats from previous seasons...all I care about is his performance this year...
  4. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    Billups is overrated, and nothing special.

    He is not the reason for denver's success. Nene vs camby, andersen as back up vs najera as back up..
    Anthony carter playing less as pg vs jr smith playing the sg more..
    this are the reasons why denver got so better from last year. people act like its all billups..
  5. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    and last year at this time nuggets were 26 - 17 in a tougher western conference..
  6. SmartIversonFan

    SmartIversonFan Second Round Draft Pick

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    ^ honestly, i just forgot to put the defense section. that says more
    about me than it does about them. :)
    i've never been of the school of thought that says a great offensive
    player has to be a great defensive player too. anyway...


    neither one is a great defender. to be more specific, iverson is amazing
    at playing the passing lanes. he gets a ton of steals. billups...commits
    to the "team defense" approach, but he doesn't get a lot of steals
    or blocks (obvious, since he's a PG). in terms of non-statistical
    defensive effort, iverson sometimes loses his man. however, billups
    doesn't really "stop" any one 1-on-1.

    so, ivo's good at passing lanes and gets a lot of steals.

    billups is good at team D.

    neither one is a good individual defender.

    ^ misconception. denver is playing well (mainly because of nene's
    vast improvement) . billups and ivo have very similar numbers, actually.
    a single big game (or bad game) from either one could swing their
    positions. in their key stats (pts, assists, FG%), billups is 1 pt, 1 assist,
    better. they're shooting the same FG%.

    so, they have very similar numbers. even their TOs are close. in fact,
    ivo has very few turnovers this season (2.7). you could argue he's
    taking better care of the ball than ever before.

    so there.
  7. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    Lol at this thread. Iverson's a chucker who dominates the ball. He'll catch it off a screen and stop moving entirely, turning the play into an isolation. Chauncey is just flat out better than Iverson.

    Shooting: Chauncey
    Passing: Chauncey
    Quickness: Iverson
    BBall IQ: Chauncey
    Leadership: Chauncey
    TS%: Chauncey
    Undersized: Iverson
    Cancer: Iverson
    Overrated: Iverson
    Chucker: Iverson
    Defense: Chauncey

    It was closer than I thought, actually.
  8. RipBillupsRJC

    RipBillupsRJC Second Round Draft Pick

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    I've never been one of the persuasion that being a 'great' offensive player was an excuse to be a crappy defender.

    Good team defense forces bad shots. Missed shots are like turnovers. I'd rather have ten defensive stops in one game versus five made field goals and three steals.

    Neither may be a 'good' man-to-man defender, but Chauncey is a vastly superior one.

    Nene is playing well because he's playing with a point guard who stretches the floor and passes the ball.

    You could argue that Iverson's been playing off the ball and hasn't had as many chances to turn it over.
  9. FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH

    FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH First Round Draft Pick

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    This is the dumbest thing I've read all morning. He is the reason for their success. Don't get it twisted. All of the players you mention weren't doing squat until he came and got them together and started running the show. So he is special, very special and there's nothing you or anyone can do about that.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Now this is getting really ridiculous. Let's try to be more fair about this.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Please do not be rude.
  12. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    This is reminding me of back when I was a kid and the weekly televised game would feature, during half time, a one-on-one game between two great players. Does anybody else remember this? I've been searching, but haven't found out exactly what years this was done, who played, and which network was doing it.
  13. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    All of those players didnt play when AI was there.You dont get it twisted. JR Smith played limited minutes, Anthony carter played alot at PG. Nene was out all season to cancer..Chris Andersen was signed in the summer, dahntay jones was signed in the summer.
    they have 3/5 new line up, plus JR Smith playing more...

    Btw, They were 8 - 0 in preseason without Billups, AI and Melo..
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    "All things excellent are as difficult as they are rare."

    Is that from Wayne's World, the movie?
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I believe the Lions were the only 4-0 team in the preseason last year. So, if that was any indication, then the Nuggs were about to go 0-82 if they didn't get Billups.
  16. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    lol, no it's from "Bill and Ted's Difficult as it Is Rare Adventure"
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's actually what I meant.

    Those 2 movies merged into 1 in my memory.
  18. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    What was Denver's record at this time last year? I do think Billups is a different type of player than AI so the probably have improved, but not by that much. Nene was out last year with cancer and Kenyon was injured also. Pistons problems are deeper than just billups.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They had Camby last year.
  20. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    The thing that AI supposedly had going for him when he joined the Pistons was that he was "hungry" for a championship.

    It was a contrast from guys like Billups and Rip who had their rings and were getting complacent.

    So complacent Rip is sent to the bench and has been responding well so far. AI is still deferring to others rather than taking a leadership role on the team. That play at the end of the third quarter of last night's game is a perfect example. AI with the ball in his hands, dribbles out the clock, and passes to a Well covered Rasheed who has to force up a 3....(Rips off headband and stomps to the bench).

    AI needs the Coach to give him the green light to be the leader we need.

    With the right coach this could work...or maybe MC will become the right coach as the season progresses?

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