Rumor Ben Wallace wants to come back

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by S.J., Jul 18, 2012.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I've switched jobs for 1/1,000th of the pay increase that Ben got. I can't fault a guy for moving to Chicago for the money.
     
  2. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    For Renoir (and I quite agree) the queen of color was black.
     
  3. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    and . . . I thought Joe had done a great job that Pistons had rewarded Ben with Chicago picked up the bill.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They definitely did us a favor. As good as Ben continued to be, he didn't play up to that contract or the one that Joe offered him. The Pistons ended up having Ben Wallace for a number of years and always underpaid him. Chicago had him for a brief period and made his financial life.
     
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  5. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I never had a problem with Ben when he left for Chicago. He ended up being right in his decision. He felt that the team was heading in the wrong direction. The "loyal" thing to do was leave and avoid being paid to be a disgruntled guy in a situation that he was unhappy with.

    I view Tayshaun differently.
    I'm totally thankful for everything that he did for the Detroit Pistons and I appreciate his loyalty to the team up until last year. When he decided to not only participate in "shootaround gate" but be one of the ringleaders of that situation, my opinion on Tay totally changed. It's not that I hate the guy or anything, I just don't see a need to keep him around and pay him what we're paying him. We'd be much better served to use his salary slot to help the team rebuild and let him go to a contender where he could be much more useful.

    For the record, I'd much rather have Ben Wallace in the twilight of his career making the league minimum than Tayshaun Prince and his current contract.
     
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  6. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    The more time passes, the more I think Prince *really* wanted to finish his career here. If AK47 can get a 2-year $20M contract in this league, Prince could've signed a similar contract with any team in the league. His contract is really not so bad; comparatively speaking. He is making halfway between JJ and Stuckey.

    The biggest issues I have with having Prince on the team are:
    - him hogging the 3 spot and preventing the growth of other players and
    - the way he's utilized: being the go-to guy on offense, having him handle the ball etc etc.

    Even though all the issues I have with Prince focus on his palm-the-ball stance, in reality my problems are not with the player but the way he is used. It's like I keep using a hatchback to transport sheets of plywood and then complaining that I hate hatchbacks.
     
  7. House Dressing

    House Dressing Bench Warmer

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    Oh Boo Hoo for the players. It must be so terrible having billionaires lining up to try to make you a millionaire. And then the fans that support that muli-million dollar annual salary are fickle? Tough. If its so rough for a player to have to deal with the expectations and criticisms of fans, teams, owners, and the media, then maybe being an NBA player ins't the career path for him. I'm guessing that we'd be able to find a couple of people that would be willing to live with the scrutiny that comes with the NBA lifestyle.

    Fans are fans of the team. They are fans of the jersey. The player is simply the guy wearing the jersey at this moment in time. There were many that wore the jersey before he got here. There will be many more to where it after he leaves. That is why it is easy for fans to be critical of the player. They are simply passing through. The jersey remains. The players should know that. That is the deal that they signed on for. That is the deal that they get more than fairly compensated for.
     
  8. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You're saying they are nothing but expensive whores?
     
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  9. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    You calling Jimmer a whore? :boxing:
     
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd like to see how Prince would do on a fast paced team. He's a great finisher on transition.
     
  11. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    Still, even the skateboard Pacer had a roof. The shortage and lack of frame-of-mind limits the options of usage. All you need is plenty of rope to tie things down. Of course this means the jittery flutter of putting the aerodynamics of the Pacer on it's side and JD (along with Mr. D) makes for a long history of not thinking like Hyundai: if you're not up-to-speed in technological fit, then kill them with style.
     
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  12. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree, this has always been a potential bigger lane for Tay. This livability of adaptation never had it's try-out within the special circumstances of past team constructs. Actually, far bigger personalities dominated the club. It was just a bad fit for his youth. However, all things will change:

    I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favor to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
    Ecclesiastes 9:11

    Fortunately for him (and with the ever-present patronage of JD's alter ego) he has adapted certain institutional slack periods that gather his ongoing transitions within the Pistons... as benefits his perceptive intellect.

    In an objective sense, this is hurting the transitional SF talent that this squad is so desperately seeking. JD made sure to lock up his minor flaws at a huge expense and no wonder the back-log at this position. Forever, it seems...look at the present and historical (even if latent) stick figures of positional equations on the blackboard. For the more perceptive on-lookers, they might soon gaze around that blackboard and then notice the drop-down lack of the human-all-t00-human eraser presence. The agenda outline and learning process has been adroitly set.
     
  13. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Props to you for using the words "Prince" and "fast paced" in a sentence that actually makes sense.
    Tay does finish well on the break.
     
  14. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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  15. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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  16. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Two quick things before my main point...
    1) You proved my point about fans treating players as assets. Thank you.
    2) I never said Wallace left because of criticism from fans. He didn't respect his coach, didn't feel fulfilled by the job he was being asked to do.

    Now, those being said, an important note needs to be pointed out here: Your perceived value of money is relative and totally different from how players see money. So few fans that aren't part of that culture can really understand how little the actual money is worth to these guys. The highly paid players have a lot of it and generally don't need that much more, and often come from a world where each month is just scrambling to find that extra $50 to get by, and now they have no idea what to do with it once they have it (this is, of course, not supposed to be an all-inclusive statement and is an exaggeration, but the fact remains that most NBA players do not come from affluent families). My uncle is an FBI agent and I remember him telling me about how they busted this pro athlete for drug use, and when they did a search of his bedroom he had unbanked paychecks just sitting around in drawers for like $20k each. Most people see money for what it allows us to afford, but when you get into that class of richness, it's just a number. I was ecstatic when I got a $8000/year raise (33%, booyah!), but some of these guys have blown that on strippers over an offseason weekend.

    The issue with the money is that each player has a very public number associated with him that most people treat as a rough equivalent of his value as a player. These guys don't seek out the extra $2 million because they need the money, they seek out the extra $2 million because it's an indication that that other team wants them more than their current team. It's validation. If you're Greg Monroe, making $4 million a year, and you see Omar Asik getting $25 million/3 years after totaling 3 points/5 boards a game, that's going to eat at you. It ceases to be about greed and becomes an issue of fairness and justness, and that's a deeply rooted instinct within us that is totally supported in the pro sports culture.

    Now am I crying for the players? No. They all understand the business and get the fan love and hostility that comes along with it. But I do roll my eyes at how angry fans get about the whole thing, because they just don't get it. I don't like to see people angry, and get all preachy when they do; personally, I think we'd all be better off if we tried to understand each other rather than dismiss the behavior of entire groups as selfish or greedy or evil.
     
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  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    @ Laimbrane

    Fans most certainly DO treat players as assets up to a certain point.

    When Steve Yzerman was initially drafted by the Red Wings, he was an asset. He was an awesome young player that I'm sure the Wings would have traded in a heartbeat for the right package in return. But shortly into his career, Steve Yzerman became more than an asset; he became an institution. He became the youngest team captain in franchise history and held on to that honor for 20 freaking years. During this time it was an absolute GIVEN that there was absolutley NO way that Yzerman would ever be traded.

    My point is that players are assets until the day that they become institutions. Once they reach that point, they become untradeable for a variety of reasons (fan affinity, potential fan backlash, etc.). On the rare occasion that an institution becomes an asset again, It usually doesn't work out (Joe Montana, Michael Jordan, etc.).

    LeBron James gets a lot of flack for leaving Cleveland (and in my opinion-deservedly so). The reason for this is easy to explain. LeBron was drafted by his hometown team. He's an amazing talent and instantly put the lowly Cavs on the map and even took them to the NBA finals. The day he was drafted, he became an institution in Cleveland.

    If your an institution, you can leave your "home" team.
    ...But don't expect your "home" fans to accept it.
    About 90% of the time, you go from intitution to villan as soon as you put on that other team's gear.
    If you don't expect to get hated-on, you're an idiot!

    Ben Wallace is an institution. So is a Bill Laimbeer.
    ...and for similar reasons, I don't really want either of them in uniform next year.
    Let the past be the past and let the future come as fast as possible because the present sucks!
     
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Amare Stoudemire was drafted 9th AND was Rookie Of the Year.
     
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Rodney White was drafted 9th AND was charged with felony manufacture of marijuana in 2011.
     
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  20. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Pardon me please, that's what I perceived.
     

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