Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by S.J., Jul 18, 2012.
Wallace mentoring Macklin didn't seem to work.....
Wow the hate for Ben sure is strong.... He was signed by Joe to come back and sit on the bench and teach... how dare he be the best def big man we've had since he returned.... If any of our vet big man should go it should be CV or Max. They are the ones that will likely actually be stealing mins from our kids while not teaching them Jack.
I expect our future star center be great... but is nobody listening to Joe or the coaches.... its going to be a slow process for the 18 year old to be ready for heavy mins and to be ready to anchor our def.
Aslong as Ben is willing to be the hardworker he has been, to be happy with whatever role he is given by the coaches, and play with effort when in the game.... he's more then welcome on any team I am cheering for.
Nice posts Coyne.........I think Ben can tell youngsters to "get into the gym, hit the weights and build his body" without taking off his street clothes.
Nice post round..........I WOULD take Ben over CV if that what it takes to rid us of him......problem is that JD WANTS CV on the team.
He will. 10-15. It's the same as with any type of practice - in order for the practice to lead to mastery, the practice has to be successful. You can't just a guy to take a ball and, using correct form, take a 100 shots into empty air; there has to be some sort of response (ball goes through the net) that creates positive feedback. The same thing with a game - if you're teaching a guy, you let him go out, work on the things he's supposed to be working on, get in the flow, play his butt off while his mind is in the game, and take him out while he's still doing what's supposed to be done. Boom, his floor time was now a successful practice session. Pat him on the back, tell him that he was doing exactly what he was supposed to, and let him play a little longer next time (so long as he continues to do it well). If you just stick him out there and let him play, then his mistakes become part of his ingrained court behavior. You have to keep him uncomfortable until he's doing the right thing, then you let him get comfortable doing it by increasing his playing time proportional to how well he plays.
As far as Ben Wallace, he is infinitely more useful as a lockerroom leader than as a coach. There's a significant difference between someone telling you how to act and showing you how to act - "do as I say, not as I do," for example, has never been a particularly effective leadership line, especially for rich, egotistical young adults. Guys will listen to the coach, of course, but when you have an older guy who's a borderline hall-of-famer still playing at the age of 38, cut the way he is, in the gym every morning and not just telling the kids but showing them what needs to be done to get to the finals... that carries a lot of weight.
@BillLaimbeer: you're right in that Wallace mentoring Macklin hasn't seemed to make a difference in his playing time; I don't know why that is, because it has clearly made a difference in his attitude and skill level. I really, really like Macklin and think he could be a solid rotational player in the future. I wouldn't be surprised to see him pull his own Ben Wallace thing, work his ass off until he gets picked up by someone, then go and be an all-star. I just don't get it; every squad he's been on, from the Pistons to the D-League to the Summer League, he works his butt off, gets a crap-ton of rebounds and up leading the team in rebound rate, +/- and ws/48. Why wouldn't you want a guy like that?
Ben is 50/50 on returning
I agree with taking Ben Wallace on the roster over Maxiel or Villenueva.
I also wonder about Macklin. There is something that I am not seeing, because he always looks pretty good to me....not a star, but a hard-working guy that fills a role at the end of the bench for now. Too early to give up on the guy?
I hope he returns. I don't care who's spot he takes or which "young prospect" will have to play in the D-league. It would be a lot of fun to see Ben for one more year. Hopefully we can even make the playoffs for his final year.
I think, at this point he knows he is coming back. He can't really confirm it until a roster spot is opened up or it will look like he is pushing someone out. I like him coming back one more year. Since Gores has made it clear that the playoffs are the goal, I think Ben will really help with his veteran influence.
I firmly believe that players need minutes to develop and I care alot more about Drummonds development than the W-L record next season. However, I doubt the relationship between MPG and player development is as easy as increased MPG = improved player development, nor that it's linear. The optimal playing time regarding development is probably dependent of several variables. Conditioning, current ability, style, mentality etc.
Right now Drummond is RAW and at this stage of his career it's a reasonable chance that he will suck big time when the season starts. If so, playing a guy like that major minutes and forcing him to make a fool of himself day in and day out will not only get him crucified in the media and by the fans, his teammates will grow tired of passing him the ball, the lockerroom might go sour and so on. Hearing the opposing fans chant "MVP! MVP! MVP!" as he's about to throw a couple of airballs from the FT-line over and over might break the kid. To develop under such circumstances would demand a motor and mental toughness like few others have. I highly doubt Drummond is this kind of person and these aspects are even said to be his weaknesses. The kids favourite movies are Happy Feet, Happy Feet 2, Pingu and March of the Penguins...
Now if he's merely mediocre and not making a fool of himself, then there is room for alot more minutes but I think he'll play 10-15 MPG the first half of the season and 20-25 MPG the second half and I don't think having Ben Wallace on the roster will change that. I hope Frank gives Drummond the amount of minutes that maximizes his development and not the W-L record.
I'm all for Ben coming back for another season. Drummond could benefit from practice time with one of the best defenders the league has ever had. Would love to see him inspire the kid by pushing him for game time
Seriously? The Pistons can just pay me and I'll call the rookies EVERY day and say "all right guys, hit those weights, build your body, and don't forget to floss."
Even though Coynejeremy probably stands for Jeremy Coyne..........I still like your style.
This is just the Pistons unfortunately. They lost their way for a bit and Macklin looks like a casualty of packing the roster full of tweeners.
To have a 3 year run like they've had and not come out of it with 1 guy like Macklin is incredible to me.
Regarding the 3 year run, Wade 2.1 is destroying the SL.
Former Piston Terrico White having impressive Summer League for Clippers « PistonPowered
We have to understand what we are getting with Drummond. We are getting a player that very well may never average much more than 10PPG but can be a very good defender and shot blocker. Forget all the draft hype. He was not drafted #2 or top 3 - he was drafted at #9. Players at #9 do not have people shouting MVP during their rookie season. We are getting a Mutombo or Ben Wallace type player who is not going to care much if he shoots an air ball but will make up for it on the other side of the court. If Ben can teach him more defense then it would be worth the year right there.
It's the opposing fans shouting MVP because he averages like 20% from the FT line.
Seems like there was a guy drafted at 9 in 2001 who got some of that talk.
No hate for Ben. I totally agree that signing Wallace and eliminating BoT & JMax would be the ideal scenario.
...But Joe has not given the Pistons that option. Both of those guys are overpaid to the point that no other team would want them. Max is expiring so there is some hope there but we are likely stuck with these two guys for the entire season.
In the NBA, 98% of the time coaches and GMs do not share the same goals.
Coaches are paid to win NOW.
GMs are paid to build teams and win consistantly. To give the fanbase enough hope that the direction of the team is worth investing time and money in them.
IMO: Every single minute of the 2012/2013 should be about getting better and preparing the young roster to compete for the long haul. I could care less if our guys win one freaking game next year. I just wanna see anyone and everyone under a certain age get every opportunity to succeed or fail. I want each and every player who has the potential to be a part of the future to show significant improvement.
Sorry, but I believe that Drummond and Slava would be better served by actually playing than watching Ben play. As long as Ben Wallace is on the team, Frank is going to play him over a rookie (He'd be stupid not to since his job is to win games!). By removing Ben from the equation, it makes it easier for the coach to do what I believe is the right thing.
As long as Andre Drummond believes that he "slipped" to the #9 pick and that he has top-5 talent, he should be treated like a top-5 player. Start him, and let him share significant minutes with Slava. Frank and his staff can make the game simple for them by limiting what they are asked to do. Be in the right spot on D, rebound and protect the rim. On offense, get every loose ball/rebound.
If we treat Drummond like he's the 2nd best player in the draft, he just might become the 2nd best player the draft. I'm not saying that Frank should simply hand him everything, just make sure he know that the job is his if he decides to take it.
Y'all forget who owns the team. Big Ben on the team is going to sell more tickets than Macklin or VyKra. He'll be back. And, I'll be happy that he is back.
Drummond will get his minutes, I don't worry about that. Just like Knight got his minutes last year. Yes, every coach wants to win now, but Frank can afford to throw away games to invest in the future. We all saw that last year. Plus, it's not like this is Kuester we're dealing with. For Q, it was his big break and he was panicky from the get-go. Joe can fire Frank today and he'll be able to land a head coaching gig somewhere else without even working for it.
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