Be Afraid, Be VERY AFRAID

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by explosivity, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,780
    Likes Received:
    85
    Mo Williams, any PG in the draft Law or Conley. While the guy's in the draft may have some growing pains they would be a long term answer at a cheaper price.
     
  2. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,712
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Ft. Belvoir, Virginia
    Maybe someone can explain to me why we are all over CBill when he has disappeared in the playoffs two years straight.

    He has made major mistakes, I am beginning to see major flaws in his game over the past couple of years.

    Why is everyone so afraid when there are point guards who are ready to be developed. We need a slashing PG who is hungry, can penetrate, dish and get out of the double teams without becoming a turnover machine.

    I
     
  3. FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH

    FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    You guys are hilarious. Why would you wanna let him go? And what the hell does age has to do with anything? He's still one of the top 5 pg's in the league. You guys are crazy. I thought you'd wanna win right now not six to seven years down the road. All of this let him go stuff is just stupid.
     
  4. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    San Diego
    Dear FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH,

    1. Age has a lot to do with it. Chauncey is top-5 now, but NBA players begin to decline physically in their late 20s, and it keeps going until they can't play anymore. Look at top point guards in the past as they went into their 30s--it's almost guaranteed that Chauncey will show a significant dropoff over the next five years.

    2. A max salary to Chauncey would limit the Pistons ability to sign other players in the future.

    3. Because of his statements about losing being "no big deal" or "not that bad" and his history of taking credit for wins but refusing to accept the blame for losses, I and many others here think he is a poor team leader, and along with Flip, is largely to blame for the lack of intensity we see in important games.

    Sincerely,
    Stupid
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,654
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Let's just get Steve Nash, see if he'll play for free, and do something to make him 5 years younger. Then, everyone here will be happy with our point guard.
     
  6. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    Very well put and good points....for a dummy.:)
     
  7. explosivity

    explosivity First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Miramar, Fl

    I tell ya what then, the Pistons should drop CB, sign Mo Williams and we will be in eastern conf. pergatory for the next 2 seasons AT LEAST. Good teams with "great" guards have gotten to the playoffs, better yet the Finals and have NOT GOTTEN THE JOB DONE,why arent we mentioning these players, i.e. Steve Nash, Jason Terry, Jason Kidd. I dont look at underperformance per se when it comes to point guards in certain circumstances. I look at their ability and potential to lead, orchestrate, and will their teams to a title(s). Cb and Tony Parker (yes Tony Parker) are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head and could put D-Wade in there when he does play the 1. I know I will turn a lot of heads with this post but the great players are able to execeed their talent level in crucial moments and carry teams on their back. The above guards have not won any titles. I look at guts, execution, and will in the playoffs i.e. Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, and even Michael WHEN HE WOULD AT TIMES PLAY THE 1.

    Not to say a Mo Williams is not a decent player but believe me there would be big drop off in our team chemistry and prominence in the eastern conf if we lose cb. THERE IS NO ONE OUT THERE BETTER RIGHT NOW IF YOU WANT TO STAY COMPETITIVE RIGHT NOW WE HAVE TO RE-SIGN THE GUY. If you ask Joe D YOU ALWAYS TRY TO WIN NOW AND YOU MAKE ADJUSTMENTS WHEN NEED BE BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW HOW LONG THE WINDOW TO TRULY COMPETE WILL STAY OPEN. What we need to do is greatly improve our bench so our core starters who have been to 5 straignt conf. finals can finally get some true rest during the season and more importantly in the postseason. If you look at San Antone they had guys who could come in play smart, hard, most importantly execute in pressure situations. WE DONT HAVE THOSE PLAYERS YET ON OUR BENCH. THE KEY ISSUE IS THE BENCH NOT CB AND I THINK JOE WOULD AGREE.
     
  8. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    It's kindof like what Dionne Warwick said, I'm not prepared to lose tomorrow reaching back for yesterday.

    It's been long enough now to quit talking about what Chauncey did and start talking about what he has done lately.

    He's not that guy anymore ex. There is not much difference between us talking about what Chauncey might still be able to do 350 days from now and what kind of career Amir may have.

    Too many cats are ready to break the bank for Billups all the while ignoring the past two years and clinging to his veteran "upside" and "potential".

    That ship gets further and further away from the dock the older and more complacent Mr. "No Big Deal" gets.
     
  9. explosivity

    explosivity First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    386
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Miramar, Fl
    Well if CB does leave I really hope that you support this team with the same fervor you have over the past 5 seasons becuase I can guarnsheed that a very large majority of the members in here wont. You always try to win now. Just because CB has come up short a couple of postseasons doesnt mean he still doesnt have a couple of great ones left in him. The key in this business is to either stand pat or upgrade, not move vital pieces in blind anticipation of success. That does not make any sense, we are not that far off I just wish everyone can see that. I guess losing will make the masses blind. If we lose CB we better get equal value through a sign and trade or through free agency because if we dont then we will truly see what Sheed meant by the "bandwagon ass cat" in this forum I can tell you that. We all want to shake things up for the sake of doing so but that is not practicing wisdom my friend. Be patient, trust me Joe knows what he's doing its just that sometimes things dont always go as anticipated but the idea or paradigm is still there to be practiced. Dont give up just yet.
     
  10. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave

    Not always. There is continuous improvement, which has been Joes method over the past few seasons, and then there is the realization that you have reached the ceiling of performance with your squad while your competitors are steadily improving.


    There are a few ways to rectify this personell issue in the NBA.

    1) You Draft a player that will be the future face of the franchise, keeping you in contention after the "old guard" step down.
    Unfortunately, with mediocre-level success comes mediocre level drafting position.

    2) You actively seek that player in free agency.
    Good luck. The Pistons will be over the cap for years to come, this will only be compounded if we re-sign Chauncey.

    3) You change the inner dynamics of the team via trade.
    At the present moment, this is the only option available to Joe. Now, making it to the Eastern Conference Finals for the next 4 years, as unlikely as that prospect truly is, might sit well with you, but I don't think it is very palatable to everyone here.

    Sometimes in order to take steps forward you have to take a few steps back.
    This is especially true when one encounters a wall, figuratively and in real life. *note*(This current squad is not going over any walls, note that a ceiling is present.)
     
  11. FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH

    FORTHELUVOFSMOOTH First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Like I said what does age really have to do with it. No one says anything about Steve Nash or J Kidd's age. So why should he be different? 31 is still kinda young. And let's get some things straight. He does take the blame for the losses. I guess some of you are questioning his attitude but it's just laid back. That's just his style get over it.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    First, Chauncey isn't even in the same class as Nash or Kidd. Both are going into the HOF, and one is a two time league MVP.

    Not very often. He prefers to tell anyone who will listen that his team is better. It was cute 3 years ago. It's not cute anymore.

    I'm gunna pass on the rest because what I have to say is not very nice at all.
     
  13. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    Awww. Come on...Let it all hang out! :stirthepot:
     
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,268
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    I think :

    1) Everybody can be an armchair quarterback all-star with someone else's money.

    2) If Chauncey leaves, we will not have an all-star caliber point-guard, and we are TOAST.

    I don't understand why people suddenly think that drafting some young buck is going to solve all our problems. The draft is a crapshoot, sometimes you win, sometimes you just win CRAP, my friends. My hopes are high with Amir, but he is still being groomed to play, and I am not expecting an instant impact. Exp, I agree with your points. Why are people trying to fix what ain't broken (the starters), it just keeps us from focussing on what is broken (the bench) and then we will never get better. We would be the laughingstock of the NBA to get rid of Chauncey with no reasonable assurances that we are getting an All-Star in return. Hello? Were you guys WATCHING the Jazz when they drafted Deron Williams? They were struggling to MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. That's why they let Deron Williams play himself into shape, and that's why he has come this far so quick. We may never play a young guard that much, because we are not desperate. Even if we did, there's no guarantee that he would pan out in the first place. Name me one team that was a championship contender with a rookie point guard, or a rookie who made a consistent outstanding contribution at any starting position. Then look at when they were drafted, and if they were higher than #15, cross them off the list. Maybe I will be wrong on this one, but I think we may be hard-pressed to come up with one.
     
  15. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,911
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    Roscoe...you make a lot of veiled references to "not nice" things about Chauncey. What's up with that?
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,603
    Likes Received:
    2,473
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I don't understand the question.

    I'm not particularly happy with Billups. I'm not thrilled with re-signing him.

    I want to write something about it at HVC (something comprehensive) but can't find the time, hence why I try parcel out my opinions here and there on the matter.
     
  17. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave
    I don't think you are reading people's thoughts correctly at all.
    If "people" thought the #15 was going to save the Pistons, they would probably not mind signing Chauncey to a new contract.

    I think the reality is probably closer to "people" realizing that the #15 pick isn't going to save the Pistons, and realizing that the only way for Joe to improve the team is through a trade of some sort.

    *NewsFlash*
    In just under a month our biggest (dollarwise) trade asset will be Mr. Chauncey Billups.

    Thats just a fact. Some people want to whistle past the graveyard and pretend this team is still something it isn't. I, for one, will be extremely displeased if Joe Dumars is content to stick his head into the sand until next years playoffs are over and the Pistons are still claiming that they are better than everyone else yet don't have anything to prove it.
     
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    12,155
    Likes Received:
    582
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Land of the Spuds.
    When Larry Brown left, Billups made it a point to show the world how it was THEM (the players) and not Larry who were responsible for their success. Well, I don't see THEM back in the NBA finals without HIM.

    Yes, without Billups the Pistons are worse. I'm not a Billups hater. He's a very good player. But that doesn't mean they can't find a younger suitable replacement and work the system around him. Any point guard going out with injury will adversely affect their respective team unless there is a better or at least suitable replacement.

    He's getting older and will sink this franchise into mediocrity if we blow too much of the payroll on him.

    I personally believe that Billups is too cocky, and was the one largely responsible for our second half breakdown in San Antonio in the 2005 finals because of his cockiness. He threw some bad passes while showboating which gave San Antonio life.

    He delivers consistently with his mouth, but he is not nearly as consistent with his play. Should we keep him around to shrink against Cleveland for the next five years to tell us how the Pistons are the best team anyhow? Flip will get the blame (and oh yes, he certainly deserves much of it) but I refer you back to my first sentence in this post.

    Here is an idea...If Brown signs with Sacramento, do a sign & trade with them for their 10th pick. Billups can go over there and tell everyone how their success is all due to him and not Larry Brown. An ego match made in heaven. We can then roll the dice on a point guard and still have enough money to surround him with talent.
     
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    The Pistons will become the worst team in the Central Division if Chauncey signs in Milwaukee. The Pistons can go from best to worst all because of this deal.

    I don't believe any of this Chauncey ego BS. If he has it than so does everybody else because the whole team has come into games with this
    "I am better than you" feeling, not just Chauncey.

    The Pistons have lost the last 3 years after a horrible CB game. Ego could have a part in it, but the guy doesn't have great stamina. Just get him a backup and sign him here. If he isn't signed here the Pistons will become the worst team in the Central Division, and they will only make the 7th or 8th seed if they even make the playoffs.
     
  20. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    It was a team concept. I remember people in here jumping on that train as well.
     

Share This Page