Away Atlanta Hawks Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Discussion in 'November 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    This game has me more disgusted than any other game because of how poorly we (especially Monroe and Jennings) played defensively
     
  2. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just looked at some stats for this year's team.

    We have the worst defensive rating in the league right now (108.1 pts allowed per 100 possessions).
    Looking at how we rank defensively, something interesting pops up. We are allowing our opponents an eFG% of .534 which makes us dead last in the league. We are allowing

    .485 FG% overall (ranks 30th)
    .369 3P% (ranks 17th)
    .527 2P% (ranks 30th)

    But we rank 4th in steals.

    I always thought our 3pt defense was bad, but it is actually about average. We just are terrible defending 2pt shots (means layups and mid-range shots).

    We are also ranked 19th in blocks and 29th in defensive rebounding. So despite the promises, it is our bigs that are not getting the job done.
     
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  3. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    This is the strangest part of this season so far, for me. Drummond and Smith are supposed to be great defenders, but they've sucked so far. The bad PR defense has been mentioned so far, but I don't see a lot of fear of driving the lane.

    I'm not impressed with the job Cheeks is doing so far. Makes me miss the glory days of Lawrence Frank.
     
  4. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    ...reason?
    THIS guy:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    IF ONLY WE COULD PULL THEIR HAIR
     
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  6. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Defense is 50% hustle, 25% chemistry, 25% system. This isn't on the coach. Most of our bad defense comes on lack of effort so far as I can see - half hearted close outs, slow switches, not fighting through screens.
     
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  7. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    The defence has been shocking and the lack of effort is infuriating. There is 4 main reasons for it I think.

    1. Monroe
    He is so bad, he makes the rest of the bigs worse just by being on the floor. In this game I saw the following, with many of them happening multiple times: ball watch and lose his man, watch his man while his man was already covered and miss a switch, watch his man who was behind a screen while screening his teammate from following his man and his typical run harder up the court than back and spend time arguing with the umpire while they are on a fast break.

    2. Singler
    He was two steps behind his man on nearly every single play. KCP guarded Korver exceptionally well. As soon as Singler started guarding him - open 3.

    3. Jennings
    He is also a few steps behind normally and when he is picked, there is no recovery. This hasn't been helped by whoever is on the screener (no matter which big) as they mostly end up in no mans land in the middle, which all that does is prevent Jennings from going back under to cut off any pass when the screener rolls to the basket.

    4. Drummond.
    It's hard to say it, but yes him too. His weak side help is almost non-existent. Sorry, probably a bit harsh - more like in slow motion. He seems unsure of when he should come to help. Have to say, I don't like this new "all business" face he has either - not sure if it is due to Mo telling him to toughen up, or he sees the losses piling up as per last year, but I would prefer to see the guy that loves the game and is just happy to be on the court.

    Some of these could be fixed:
    1. Monroe just needs to put in some bloody effort. He has the attributes from his offence to be a good defender. If he doesn't improve by the end of the season, I'd be looking for a trade. We definitely do not give him max.
    2. This can't be fixed I don't think
    3. I think this is part due to the help he is getting on pick and rolls, so it can improve, but I don't think by much. He just doesn't set up to get around the screen well. Maybe he is too busy looking for the steal.
    4. This will improve - bloke is only 20 and has Wallace in his corner.

    Have to agree with the comments on BJ hogging the ball tonight too. All he did was dribble dribble dribble. Again, I think this negative was exacerbated by his teammates a bit with poor offensive movement, but it's a bit catch 22 - guys will stop moving if you stop moving the ball. He has still not matured either, as was witnessed when he got frustrated with our help D and tried to flatten out the ball. We need less of this and more of the Jennings that went to Drummond when he was upset.

    Seems Mo is as frustrated as we are by getting tossed. I think this was more about his players, which tells me he actually has plans that just aren't being implemented. This points to lack of effort too, which is the most frightening thing.

    The lack of chemistry still up to this point is surprising, but I suppose the pre-season, road trip start (again), home and away again makes it hard to train. Very soon though, all these excuses will carry absolutely no weight.

    I am keeping the faith as I have seen some good aspects in some of these first games, but would like to see it come together before Christmas.
     
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  8. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    And who's letting THIS happen?
    Who insists on playing perimetor players who don't fight through screens and constantly blow their assignments?

    Our front line should be a no fly zone.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It would be interesting to see what our efg allowed is with smith and drummond on without monroe. You'd have to look at a few other combos to figure out if it's system related or personnel related more (obviously sone of both).
     
  10. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Monroe's problems are about 90% effort related on defense. Occasionally he gets bitten by a really good cut, but mostly he just needs to try.

    Singler is fine 1 on 1. He sucks at team defense.

    Jennings can gamble if he gets proper help. This is how Miami play defense, hedge aggressively on the screen and then run back when you stop the ball handler from turning the corner. It requires effort to work. Otherwise the ball handlers just waltz into the lane.

    Drummond is intimidating on defense, but not good....yet. He is getting better.

    To be honest, outside of KCP, we don't have many good perimeter defenders. To defend the PnR you need to stop the ball handler from being able to pass or drive, or move back and stop the pass/roll. The reason it is the bread and butter play is because you can't stop both, you need to pick the poison. Our team is content to leave both options open and its effort related.
     
  11. Susie914

    Susie914 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Greg is starting to get on my nerves too. Every single time you turn around he is turning the ball over, getting stripped, while in the meantime everybody else is racing back down to the other end and he is still back there staring at the referree.
     
  12. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Hmmm, maybe we should have hired Big Ben to work with the bigs instead of Sheed....
     
  13. Susie914

    Susie914 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    We need BOTH!
     
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  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's tough! Jennings and Monroe are just flat out horrible, will they get better? Don't know. Will they get some hustle? Don't know. Also neither of them have any sense of defensive awareness or instinct, KCP does. You have to watch that kid for about 5 defensive possessions, it will bring tears to your eyes.....he just gets it! But his shot is OFF, and his bricks are contributing to our losses as of late. In terms of Jennings' poor defense, were stuck with it.....who are you going to play? Chauncey and Will are just as bad. Like Lee I'm impressed by Siva's defensive effort, but he's a liability on offense. Do we really want Stuckey running the point again? No! So unfortunately he's our guy.....I think you have to limit the amount of time that Jennings and Monroe are on the court together. I think a bench that features 3 guards- Billups, Bynum and Stuckey with Moose, and Drum or Smith would be ideal.
     
  15. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    At any given time I think you could fool almost any group of Pistons by telling them their sneakers are untied.

    The Hawks announcers were laughing at them last night!!!

    Drummond gives a crap and he's improved, but he is ridiculously easy to confuse on D.


    Sent from the new and improved Tapatalk 2.
     
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  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    To be fair, when I was Andre's age, I had trouble tying my shoes.
     
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  17. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I am beginning to think that there is more to being a good defensive team than simply declaring yourself to be one.
     
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  18. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    There are a lot of problems with this defense, and to illustrate, I'm going to use the Atlanta/Detroit highlight film on NBA.com

    0:21 - Jeff Teague just dribbles around Jennings, drives through a lane full of defenders watching him to it, and then passes to a cutting Millsap. The following breakdowns occurred:
    1) Jennings let his guy past. He's late getting there, it looks like off a pick, but I can't really tell. If it is, then Drummond's responsibility should be to get out there and prevent the drive. (If it's not, then Cheeks sucks worse as a coach than I'm assuming) He did not, and Jennings was a step behind. A little stutter step by Teague, Jennings bites and pauses, and Teague blows by him.
    2) Drummond just stands there and watches it happen. He actually lets Jennings pass by him as the trailer. Andre should be embarrassed by this (lack of) effort).
    3) Teague then continues his drive through the lane right by Monroe, who kind of makes a half-assed move to help and follows a little bit, getting pulled to the outer edge of the paint.
    4) Smith (I'm assuming) realizes that Teague probably isn't going to shoot with Monroe and Drummond right there, and backs off to his guy on the wing, where he is useless (because he's playing the perimeter instead of down low).
    5) With nobody guarding him, Millsap crashes between down the lane. Teague, with a very loose interior and a wide-open passing lane, dishes a little bounce pass right to the cutter.
    6) Neither Monroe nor Drummond, who are right there, get in front of Milsap, though Drummond makes a half-hearted attempt to stop the drive. In their defense (since they aren't playing any themselves), there isn't much time to react, but Drummond was caught watching instead of positioning himself to be useful. Monroe, for his part, throws up his hand as if to say "what are you doin', man?", which is ironic, because he really wasn't doing anything.

    The issues here are that Jennings is the only one putting any effort in, and that there is no communication and cohesion down low.

    Let's take a look at the breakdown at 0:39.
    1) Drummond on Horford, who has the ball with his back to the basket. Now, Drummond has done well in not letting Horford get position down low, but he's a foot or two off him. This is probably what he was taught - Horford is a good post player and if he turns around to take a contested mid-range jumper over Andre, that's a win for your defense. Unfortunately, it's clear that Horford is facilitating, not posting, and Drummond is not making Horford's job difficult at all. Drummond should have closed right on him and forced him to make a tougher pass.
    2) Milsap is at the top of the key while Monroe is guarding him from the free throw line. Again, this is good positioning, because Milsap isn't exactly Kyle Korver. Milsap cuts, and Monroe follows him down and past, leaving him in good position for what happens next.
    3) Carroll, starting at the opposite wing, follows Milsap's cut with one of his own. Smith, unfortunately, is just standing there watching, and Carroll has a relatively uncontested cut. Horford feeds him for the layup, and Smith is out of position to help.
    4) Monroe is watching and in position, but makes absolutely no move to cut off Carroll.

    These breakdowns are all about effort and attention; the positioning is okay, but the Pistons' big three are not really trying. It's obviously a biased sample because NBA.com is only going to choose highlights where someone screwed up, but I don't feel like these breakdowns are all that unusual for this team. The thing is, I don't know how to go about fixing it, though I am glad I'm not the one that has to do it.
     

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