Home Atlanta Hawks Friday Jan 4 2013

Discussion in 'January 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The last 1:30-2:00 minutes of the game or whatever time was left after Stuckey put them up 3 I was expecting and dreading the Hawks 3 pointer that was going to tie it. That being said my jaw hit the floor when Horford hit that "three". It hit the floor again when ATL stole the inbounds pass after it was ruled a two.

    I've always felt Tay is pretty bad at inbounding the ball. He must lead the league in either inbounding the ball or calling timeout at 4.99 seconds.

    The one flaw I see in Drummond's game is that he doesn't play with his hands very high and/or he's not very long. He doesn't seem that disruptive if he switches on a pick and roll and is trying to defense against a pass.

    I only watched the 2nd half mostly but it didn't seem like the bench with Daye and CCG et al was insanely hot. They still were far from being picked apart by ATL for their deficiencies.

    Did Singler play?

    Maybe he was rusty from his time off, but Stuckey looked like a flat tire out there with 2nd group.
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  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Good win over a good team. However, we took a step back trying to force another guard into the mix since Stuckey played. Stuckey himself was plus 19 though. This is a case of getting a very good player back, but making the team worse.

    Here is what we could have used for our 2nd unit: Stuckey, Daye, Singler, CV, Drummond. Four good outside shooters, and Drummond to pose a threat to roll to the hoop. Instead, we still played Bynum, even though we already had two healthy point guards. Singler never played at all with our 2nd unit, even though Singler has consistently been a big spark plug for that unit. Look, we dropped all that lead but one point going with two point guards. It does not work. Yes, great to get the win, but running two point guards is still a bad idea when the 2nd one is not a strong outside shooter.

    We had a 19 point lead. Won by one point. How did we get the lead. Our starters were slightly negative, though they held their own, not digging any real large holes like in the last Atlanta game. Monroe kept bulling to the basket, or moosing might be the better term for him. Ok, I guess a bull moose can "bull" his way to the hoop, and Greg Monroe did lots. 18 points, 9 bounds, to go with JMAX's paultry 10/10 double double. Tay? Really bad shooting, lots of bounds per the stats but the stats lie in this case. Tay stood there and collected a myriad of offensive rebounds as he missed shot after shot all on one play, on which he never did finally get any points. Singler hustled, used his height to prevent too many perimeter shots from going over him, and was a load for their tiny guard to guard. Although he did not get many shots. Knight did not do that much with the starters, getting it seemed more of his points with the bench spreading the floor.

    Daye was sizzling. 9-11 on a variety of shots. A pair of threes, and 7 other shots from all over the floor. Using the bank very well this game to use his height advantage to stick very high percentage shots over people. Heck, he even dribbled away from a guy to make one of those shots. Nothing really new for Daye, just new to this current stint of playing time since he is getting some of his game back after sitting for so long.

    I must say, regardless of what else, JMAX is playing about the right amount of minutes of late what with the bench doing so well and staying in there so much. Enough to keep shot. Not too much to tire him out. (Last year, I often mentioned that one thing coach got right was the minutes for Maxiell.)

    Drummond got a piece of the potentional winning shot for Atlanta from the left corner. Man, I, and I am sure thousands of Pistons fans had pounding hearts on that play. Drummond, as usual, was everywhere a rebounder was needed. His shotblocking had them scared. And we got to see another pick and roll with him and Will that resulted in a right hand guiding the ball into the hoop for a soft slam.

    We seemed to have the game won. Up 3 points. Atlanta hit a 3 to tie it. With 5 seconds to go in the game. Gee. Another OT. But wait. A review showed the foot was on the line. Well. A toe anyway. So here we are, up 1. With the ball. All we had to do is get the ball inbounds. No timeouts, Tay threw it to the other team, setting up that last shot. A foul to give trimmed off one second. Drumms did the rest.

    Just a reminder, that last Atlanta game really should have been credited as a win to us. The refs blew a goal tending call. Bynum had the ball up on the glass and their guy smacked the backboard, shaking it so that Bynum's shot did not go in. That was with 3 seconds to go in the first regulation, and that shot should have put us up by two - with the same 3 seconds to go as with this game. Oh well. Life is not always fair. Hopefully, it will balance out down the line on the calls.

    It seemed like Bynum was effective enough getting inside with shooters in to spread the floor - but it also seemed like Bynum kept taking and failing heat checks. A little more driving it in might have helped keep that big lead. Not to mention that heat check by Stuckey in that stretch. Wrong time for a heat check. That shot stank.

    We missed too many free throws, and no Drummond did not shoot any.

    Atlanta got super hot on the 3 ball in that stretch. Korver hit one from about 10 feet back of the line. Odd that the run for Atlanta was with Josh Smith sitting. But hey, they were going to live or die by that 3 ball - and they almost got this one from us with that.

    Charlotte is next. Keep the streak going.

    GO PISTONS!!!!!

    Oh, and we also got back to bringing in Stuckey as the first move, always the wrong move. So the most effective unit from last game, Knight, Daye, Tay, Monroe, Drummond, never happened.
    LA Dre and roscoe36 like this.
  3. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Keep this in mind Lee, we were LOSING when Will was getting DNP's and Stuckey was playing. We won when Bynum was given the opportunity to be the undoubted leader of the bench brigade. Stuckey throws the wonderful chemistry of that unit off! He needs teh ball in his hands to be effective and that's not the identity of the 2nd unit. Singler definitely should be playing with that 2nd unit, NOT STUCKEY or TAYSHAUN! But the coach seems hell bent on screwing up something that is essentially fool proof.

    And while the 2 PG system doesn't work I'll give Frank the benefit of the doubt and assume his primary focus was putting players on the floor who could guard Williams and Teague. Knight did an EXCELLENT job on Teague, but I think he panicked and got overly concerned with trying to defend Williams.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    - Probably the best defensive game of Knight's life. He was moving his feet well and just had an edge tonight. Teague played 42 minutes and had 5 points, 5 turnovers. Knight was 0-5 from deep and 4-6 in the paint. Probably should have kept attacking. Most of that may have happened when he was in with the shooters.
    - Prince's shot was broke tonight.
    - Maxiell with a mini gem. 10 pts, 10 rebs, 2 ast, 3 blck, and only 1 tov. J. Smith had 3 rebs.
    - Singler was invisible again.
    - Monroe salvaged his clumsy game tonight by getting to the line as much as the rest of our team combined. And he knocked them down going 9-10.

    - Stuckey's game looked really bad I will admit, but he shot 50% from the field (ignoring the full court quarter ending heave). He was also +19 in only 24 minutes and the team was -18 in the other 24 minutes, so not sure that he was the problem.
    - Bynum's J finally stopped falling (0- 4 on jumpers). He did get to the rim a few times and squeezed in 5 assists in 16 minutes. Drummond botched a pair of lobs that he should have converted on top of that. Coach limited his minutes based on the direction of the game. Bynum has called for Stuckey to go to the starting unit and to have Singler come to the bench unit, presumably because it doesn't make sense to have 2 Bynums on the court together. This game may have shown that a bit.
    - Charlie in 13 minutes was limited initially because of foul trouble and ultimately because he was taking bad shots (deep 3's when we had the lead, airball from behind the backboard, etc). 0-4 shooting, but snagged 4 boards, a steal, and blocked 2 shots. At least he did something out there.
    - Daye is the man lately. .909 eFG tonight and he actually lowered his 3-point shooting percentage on the season with this performance. Not sure the man that he was guarding scored tonight. Need someone to check the tape in slow mo.
    - Drummond- actually got rattled by Pachulia... AGAIN. Good life lesson I guess. Still, in less than 20 minutes, he got his 9 rebounds, shot over 60% from the floor, and blocked 2 shots with one being the defensive game winner.


    I was very happy and a little surprised to see that Frank actually subbed Drummond in for that final defensive possession. How could you not? That wasn't even his man that he blocked! Shades of Dumars' post season block.
    Knight was clearly fouled on the failed in bound play at the end- held around the waist from behind, which slowed his speed and made Tay's lead look like a mistake.
    Most of Atlanta's comeback was built on poor shot selection by us and crazy 3-point makes by them. i.e. it was very similar to our comeback against them. In both games, the comeback team couldn't get it done.
    Some iffy reffing again. 3 or 4 mistake calls (out of bounds called off of Monroe. Smith's block on Stuckey ruled a goal tend. Tech on Drummond for yanking his arm emphatically away from Pachulia. The no-call dead ball foul as Knight was grabbed on the in-bound. + a few more phantom calls. Glad they reversed that 3 by Horford, but I hope they had a better camera angle than we were privy to. Not sure how you reverse that one based on what I saw.

    We're going streaking! Come on everybody.
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  5. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    You know Joe isn't trading his Sacred Cow :cheeky-smiley-012: . Bynum's problem may be precisely that he is an expiring contract. :noidea:
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Actually, not true. The win that started this streak, Bynum only played in garbage time. Daye was plus 19 in that 100-68 win on Dec22 over the Wizards,while Bynum playing the GT 4th was plus 6. This was Daye's 3rd game back in the rotation. Bynum was still not in the rotation. And Stuckey played. This was before his injury.

    Next night, we beat the Wiz again. Bynum is negative 1 for the game, plays 13 minutes. Daye plays 23 minutes and is plus 9. Now, that is two wins, and still no real contributions from Bynum.

    Dec26, we lose double OT to Atlanta. Stuckey is injured in that game. Plays great though while in. We actually win the game since Bynum's shot with 3 seconds left was goal tended with no call. (Maybe tonight's bogus goal tending call was makeup?) Bynum does well in that game, getting him back in the good graces of the coach. But he was only plus 6. He did not set the world on fire. Meanwhile, Daye was plus 17 in 32 minutes.

    And now our current 4 game win streak. Very impressive win over Miami, and Bynum did great in in 28 minutes going plus 17. Daye was also plus 17 in his 29 minutes. This is the only game recently where Bynum is better than a plus 6 in a game. It is one of 4 however in which Daye has recently been plus 15 or better. And a plus 9, all in a stretch of 7 games. No Stuckey.

    Game two of streak. We beat the Bucks, who had just beaten Miami the night before. Daye is plus 4 in 13 minutes while Bynum is plus 6 in 24. No Stuckey for 2nd game.

    Game three of the streak. We beat SacTown, which boasts recent wins over the Knicks and Celts. Daye is plus 15 in 21 minutes. Bynum is even in his 21 minutes. 3rd and last game, no Stuckey.

    Finally, tonight. Win four (and counting I hope) Daye, plus 6. Scoring hero for us. Bynum, -6. Stuckey is back and goes plus 19 for the game.

    Sum it up. Daye is plus 87 in the 6 out of 7 winning run we are currently on. He has been positive for every game of it, 9 or better 5 times. Vs. Bynum, plus 28 in the same stretch, one game better than plus 6, and in three of the 6 wins, he is not positive on the plus minus.

    Just to get the complete picture - CV began playing. Still no wins. Then we added in Daye, and voila, we had two strong outside shooters spreading the floor and we started winning games. Bynum comes along and thrives some in this system - but Stuckey already was before that before he had the ankle injury.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Will pick and rolling with drummond is unstoppable when the floor is spread.

    By the way, our guards tonight were ignoring daye in the 4th quarter. The hot hand was not getting the ball.
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Thank You! And Rodney CANNOT run an effective pick and roll, because he's a poor ball handler, has poor court vision and since he's a bad shooter you simply go under on the screen. Because the defender goes under, it prevents Dre from rolling to the hoop. THAT offense only works when Will Bynum is running it, irregardless of what a plethora of +/- stats says.
  9. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nailed it.

    Fun game to watch until the end, when it was just tense. Strangely enough, though, I never felt like the Pistons were going to lose. Maybe I just wasn't heavily invested in the game, or something, but I feel more confident in this group.

    As was pointed out here earlier, Stuckey and Bynum overlap too much in their skillset, and playing both together reduces the bench's overall effectiveness. Stuckey should move back to the first team and run the point with Knight at the 2 on offense (switch on defense), using Prince and Knight to spread the court.

    Daye was ridiculous and has been for a few games now. He actually showed an isolation game! With a laughably ridiculous 82% shooting on 11 shots, He hit from all over the court (his only misses were from beyond the arc), for the most part created his own opportunities, and rebounded well to boot. His best game of the year, and possibly of his career.

    Moose played one of his better games in awhile, though he still can't make those contested bunnies inside. Needs to keep eating his Wheaties. Or start.

    Prince didn't play very well tonight: 2-12, missed an important free throw near the end, and threw the ball away (though Knight was fouled) instead of off of the the guy in front of him.

    The big thing I saw tonight was a team win the type of game that they've been losing; you can't always win big, and no team always protects the lead in the end of games. In the fourth quarter Atlanta clamped down on D, Detroit missed some easy shots, Atlanta hit some threes to get back in it, stole a possession and had the last opportunity to win it. Detroit blocked that emphatically and won. Big win tonight for the team's confidence.
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  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    That makes sense. Rodney was mucking things up last night.
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The rational for starting Stuckey seems to be that the first unit already stinks so he can't make it worse. The backhanded compliment award.

    I'm not sure the Pistons could reasonably go with a worse group than the Monroe, Max, Tay, Knight and Stuckey one they used to close the game.

    Controversial move by Frank using his best defender to play defense in a one possession game.

    That was an absolute bomb that Korver hit.
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    The failed inbounds pass from Tayshaun to BK....Is BK partially at fault for not selling the fact that he was being held? On Pistonpowered there is a discussion about how Billups would have helped out the officials on that inbounds play. There were no timeouts and Tayshaun had to pass it somewhere.
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    So what do they do with Rodney? Because while most struggle to admit this, Bynum is our best one on one player, he's also the most adept at creating his own shot as well as shots for others.......Rodney on the other hand......
  14. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    I say they trade Stuck, A few years ago we needed him because he was the only player we had that could score. But as everything else....the team has chnaged, and the dynamic has changed. Will Bynum be the answer in 2 years? no, The responsibility of the gm is to keep the roster improving, Joe has had a track record of causing log jams at positions by hoarding many similar styled players. we have a pair of similar styled players, so lose one and pick up cap flexibility , or a player with a different skill set.
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    The starting group of Knight, Stuckey, Tay, JMAX, Monroe is what we started the season with. Lots of data on it, since coach keeps going back to it so often. And it stinks. To this point, it has a 6-16 won loss record and a minus 65. In contrast, what replaced it as far as starting games - Knight, Singler, Tay, JMAX, Monroe - has a 13-13 won loss record and is plus 10. Not stellar, but acceptable. Going backwards is no way to go.

    So simple a solution to having two Bynum type players on the floor. Just use Stuckey. Do not mess up the starting unit just to find playing time for Bynum.

    Bynum has helped us win two games to this point - the Miami game, and the Bucks game. This does not mean he earned a permanent spot in the rotation, except maybe in the coach's eyes. Remember, Bynum started out in the rotation as we lost every game in sight to start the season. Going backwards is not the way to go. Playing two point guards at the same time - not the way to go. Trying to add Bynum in the mix when you already have two fine point guards - not the way to go.

    The game that started this run only featured Bynum in garbage time. Knight was +29 in that first win over the Wizards, while Stuckey was plus 13. Next night, another win. Stuckey scores 18, shooting 10 free throws to equal the rest of the team combined. And 8 assists. The "loss" to Atlanta? Stuckey gets 16 points and dishes 11 assists. Clearly not the problem. Stuckey seems to be thriving in our new found system, based on two good shooters, Daye and CV, in with the 2nd unit. Then he gets hurt. Bynum does well a couple of games. But now that Stuckey is back, our emergency point guard can go back to being just that.
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Please! BYNUM has the been the best PG on this team during this win streak, and please save me the data against the lowly Wizards. It was Bynum's 31 POINTS!!!! that had us in a position to win that double-overtime game against the Hawks. During this 4 game win streak we have beaten 3 playoff teams with records above .500, and it's all thanks to the production of the 2nd unit, a 2nd unit ran and lead by WILL BYNUM! The only PG on this team with a decent handle and passing ability. Even Stevie Wonder could see that Rodney Stuckey threw off the 2nd units efficiency and chemistry, as he was running an iso on the wing in the mid-post.
  17. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Sounds like yall talkin' Bynumite !
    We'll see how long that lasts.
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  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Agreed. Stuckey should not play at the moment. He got Wally Pip-ed.

    Frank has no problem doing it to Drummond.

    Stuckey simply can't shoot well enough to play on this team.
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Bynum is one 3 guys on this roster who play like they have a chip on their shoulder (Dre and Max being the others). Maybe some of that "attitude" is rubbing off on Daye and CV since they seem to be playing with a lot more "game face" than before.

    Not so ironically, these might be our 5 best players right now.
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    ever since that DNews article saying the P's just need to play with some venom. Bout 2 weeks ago.

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