Home Atlanta Hawks Friday Jan 27 2012

Discussion in 'January 2012' started by roscoe36, Jan 26, 2012.

?

Who wins?

Poll closed Jan 27, 2012.
  1. Detroit

    55.6%
  2. Atlanta

    44.4%
  1. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    You are talking about Big Ben and Wilkens, which takes us back to 2002 when it was Ben and Curry.....the difference was we got probably 15 boards, and tonight there was only 8.....plus Ben had three turnovers, because somebody keeps feeding him the ball. :cheeky-smiley-012:
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The six point lead was with 39 seconds left.
  3. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Beautiful game before that collapse at the end. But this team has some fight in them.

    Good game Maxie! The missed fts hurt, but that's not why they lost. Good energy, good hustle, very good defense at the end. Except for the 'Point at Marvin Williams' defense of course. No Stone Hands this time, but he did force it a few times.

    Very good game for Brandon. Career high 8 assists with 0 turnovers. Must be pissed at himself for missing the 3 in regulation, but the Hawks' defense made that a near-impossible shot to make. He sped up the pace on offense and facilitated well before having to sit with some sort of injury in the early fourth, which really hurt. He also helped get Greg going a little bit, driving and dishing to him (and JJ) before going to the bench. Didn't shoot a good percentage, but most of his shots were within the flow of the offense, just tough luck misses. Knocked down 2 3s in OT, but it was too little, too late as they played like they were in shock through the first 3 minutes giving up 3 after 3 after 3 and just looking dejected. This guy doesn't give up easy though, and his teammates seemed to respond to it. Very competitive guy.

    Greg had a relatively quiet first half before going off for another double double. Good job on the glass, and he had some point blank misses, but he made them more in the second half. He looked really pissed off by the late collapse and subsequent loss, and that's important. You don't want your franchise guy getting used to losing, you want him to hate it. He and Brandon not giving up is a good sign for the team. He did have a horrid lapse on defense in the fourth, giving up a dunk with no move to contest whatsoever. That hurt.

    Austin Aye! He continues to be a liability on defense. It was mentioned in chat that he was too busy celebrating at one end and was late coming back in a possession where the first of two dagger 3s were made. He still makes the dumbest decisions, and that's why I don't trust him late in games. He may have the tools to be a solid shooter/scorer off the bench, but that's it - unless he plays on a team where defense doesn't matter. If his shot's falling, good, if not, he needs to sit. This is likely why Frank was reluctant to play him with Tay available, though the alternative has its downsides as well.

    Stuck was okay I guess. He threw up a bunch of wild shots in this game, which had no chance of going in. He needs to make better decisions with the ball. I wasn't happy with his play, but he was a bit better in the second half, calming down a bit. Made a good save and pass at the end of the fourth, but by then he and the team couldn't stop the red hot JJ/Williams combo. Pointing at the guy isn't going to make him miss, fellas.

    JJ was okay. Shot a decent percentage and had a bunch of hustle points. Had a pretty layup in transition and another down low, both from Brandon Knight passes. I like his energy, but he gets called for the crappiest touch fouls. 4 fouls for this game as well.

    Big Ben on offense is a huge liability. I like the guy, but he shouldn't be attempting crossovers, ever.

    Walker Russell Jr. is a decent player, but he was mostly a non-factor. Having him off the bench for a change of pace is good though.

    This was a painful loss. The team fought hard, but shooters get hot. The defense needs to be better, inside and on the perimeter. This loss sucks, but they'll have to shrug it off and play hard against a very good Philly team tomorrow - I hope they bounce back. The collapse at the end was bad, but they competed well for the most part and the way they played the first 47 is the way they need to play, just close it out better next time.
    max, basketbills and linwood like this.
  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yep you are correct, 85-79 lead after Daye hit his second FT with 1:47 left and then 87-81 with 39 seconds left after Daye hit the jumper from the side...three seconds later Marvin Williams hits his uncontested- where are the defenders - I can't believe I am this wide open three while his man >Daye was on the other side of the court slapping palms as he trotted down the floor. Someone on the D had to recognize, and rotate, but other than Max, everyone else was on the other side of the floor. :confused:
    alexa032 and linwood like this.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Wilkins, Ben, and Russell combined for 2 points in 68 minutes of playing time. That is really rough.

    I'm considering this game a W, but with the benefits of an L. We had it in the bag. Approximate odds of losing while up 6 with 30 seconds and the other team with the ball:

    Odds of them hitting a 3: 35% (figure it's about average because we don't know what they are going to do)
    Odds of us getting 0 points on the next possession: 50% (We shoot lower, but could get fouled, offensive rebounds, etc)
    Odds of them hitting another 3 on their last possession: 20% (I'm being generous here, real odds could be lower because we were blanketing the arc)
    Odds of us failing to score from half court with 2 seconds left: 85%

    So, multiply them all together and you get: about 2%

    If we have 50 games where we have 6 point leads with 30 seconds left, we'll win 49 of them.

    But not tonight!


    Great game by Monroe. I saw a lefty hook, a righty hook, a turn and face with a drive by, a great pass, and some tough rebounding tonight.

    Unbelievable barrage of 3's by Knight when the game was pretty much over- but still they were guarding him actively. And he solved his biggest problem tonight by avoiding the turnovers. I'd say that our 11 turnovers were the main reason that we were in a position to get this virtual W.


    Even though we are bad and mistake prone, it is still a fun team to watch when we play the youth. Watching Tay and Ben Gordon lose is boring as hell, but watching Daye, Wilkins, and Russell almost knock off the Heat and the Hawks is actually pretty entertaining.

    By the way, there were 34 points scored in overtime tonight. I wonder what the record is... that has to be close. That is on pace for each team to score 326 points in a regulation game.


    Other- Kelser's dunks were pretty sweet. I never really paid attention to footage of him until they showed it tonight. Cool guy, I really like his personality as a complement to Blaha.
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  6. max

    max All-Star

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    I thought for sure we had a win there.

    Yes great game from Maxiel but I think we all know what his next game is going to be like. Figure he is good for a game like this maybe 2 or 3 times per season.

    Monroe had a double double scoring 20. Knight hitting some clutch shots. IS JJ trying not to play D? Perhaps he is trying to fill in for CV.
  7. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    This is like watching a pre-teen go all emo finding him/her self. Early on it was pathetic. Now we really compete. The cool thing is that we have to really try to tank instead of putting a sub D-league performance and embarassing all pistons fans and themselves. It was great to see Maxiell look like a fantasy WW pickup with some nice hooks.

    Anyway, the team is looking like its coming together and developing an identity.

    Daye is looking better. Hopefully he can fix his ridiculously bad D.

    The one thing that is getting better is off the ball movement. But only in that they move more. Part of that is Tay isn't there to palm the ball, jab step, pump fake. then start backing down his man to try a hook shot. However, it seems like they don't move right. The spacing gets off and there aren't passing lanes opening up. Baby steps i guess.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    You'd be hard pressed to find a team that has lost successive games like this. This is not a good thing.

    The Pistons had a foul to give at the end of regulation and did not use it despite the fact that Johnson was basically standing there dribbling the ball before shooting. (Watching highlights while typing, Johnson was 3-4' inside the 3 pt line with his back turned prior to the shot and The Victim didn't foul him!)

    Austin Daye admitted he did not know they had a foul to give. You can say he's young, but it is his 3rd year in the L. We age these guys in anti-dog years apparently. All in all I thought he played pretty well though considering that he hasn't seen his life coach since Tuesday.
    http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...ns-let-lead-slip-away-get-blown-away-overtime

    The Pistons, led by JR Stuckey, look for Ben Wallace on offense like he is Bob McAdoo. You figure at some point they have to realize that the other team wants him to get the ball.

    Why didn't Stuckey play in OT? That was a sweet pass he had at the end of regulation, heady play. I enjoyed that almost as much as when he drove to the basket, shot a ball that missed the rim entirely and careened off the backboard, grabbed the rebound and shot an air ball from the other side of the hoop.

    With those plays I think Stuckey hit the incentives needed to guarantee the last year of his contract.

    I am liking Monroe's offense. It is definitely expanding. His D is another story.

    The Pistons are way more interesting to watch with some of the younger guys. I think one of the greatest shames of the last 2 wasted seasons was not even taking a chance at finding a diamond in the rough. I guess when your lottery picks fit that bill you can't take that chance.

    The Hawks are one of my, if not the, least favorite opponents. The bum me out watching them. (I slept like a baby for parts of the 4th.) That being said the Pistons do not have a player anywhere close to getting that last shot off like Johnson did. (And before you say Woah, look at what they're paying him! check out the Pistons contracts.)
  9. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I enjoyed watching this game. Maxiell came alive and was playing well. I can see his "point defense" catching on, especially late in games when they are trying to conserve energy.
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Perfect Game! Tough, we showed life, we competed, we coulda/woulda/shoulda won, but we LOST! Anthony Davis BABY! Seriously this is exactly the type of ball I want to see! Here's what I'm learning:

    If Greg Monroe can get 1 other player to play at a high level with him, we have a shot. Speaking strictly in terms of offensive production, Chaz should be THAT guy.

    If Stuckey can do 2 things once that groin gets healthy (1) Finish! and (2) Hit the 15-17 footer occasionally, then he's good enough to start at the 2-guard spot until we acquire or draft an upgrade. Starting Knight and Stuckey will allow us to use Ben Gordon as a 6th man, where he actually has value, not as much value as his contract states, but value nonetheless.

    I don't dislike Knight as much as I did last week........that said, I still don't "like" him.

    Still need a legit scorer on the wing, replace Wilkins with say Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.......and we're in business! I'll pack Tay's suitcase to get him out of here, shouldn't take long with that extra small suitcase of his.
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  11. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    It's irritating to think that Tay has another 3.5 years on his contract, when it's plain to see that the team is better out there without him.

    Monroe's rate of improvement is staggering. He could easily end up being the Pistons' best post player since Corliss Williamson (not counting Sheed, who could have been but didn't want to). I never would have thought he'd be this good. His defense has to improve.

    He didn't shoot well overall, but this felt like Brandon Knight's best game. No turnovers, and I like his never-say-die attitude.

    Keeping things in perspective, my long-range outlook on the Pistons improved last night. I like what I saw from some of the youngsters, and they lost a game that they deserved to win. As they grow they'll win those, but you want them losing those games right now and building character while climbing their way to the top of the draft.
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    What could be. Like JJ, a guy who did a lot of nice things in this game, but who is simply not a power forward in this league - the only guy we had double digits negative in this game. He could have given us just as many rebounds and hustle plays at small forward - indeed been a great asset as a small forward who can seriously add to your rebounding totals. Plus JJ does have some decent ability to score - against small forwards.

    Meanwhile, new coach still won't play one of his very few actual bigs, Macklin. Give him a shot. what new coach is doing is certainly a lot worse than using an actual big as a big.

    Then you got Wilkins. Zero points as our starting small forward - and the coach could care less.

    Yes, Russel does look like a decent backup guard - but Daye could be playing those minutes and posing a nightmare overmatch to the opposing guard.

    And when of my biggest peaves from the last two games, wearing Ben Wallace out, followed by wearing JMAX out, as soon as possibly in a game. Neither is good for much more than 6 minutes. JMAX due to his size, and Ben Wallace due to his age and size. These guys are not sprinters. To ask them to sprint for 12 straight minutes is a Curry like boneheaded mistake. Just simply substitute JMAX for Ben early - and keep rotating them often.

    The game. Craziest mistake was not to defend the 3 line on the last two possessions of regulation. Bad coaching. Guys got back, but guarded the bucket when a 2 was pointless - and they did it two straight times.

    Yes, great that Knight made those 2 3's in OT. Great that Monroe had a 20-10. Great that others contrinbuted to the scoring like Daye, JMAX, JJ, and Stuckey. But we should have won this game - and to my thinking, the main hindrance to us winning is our coach. He has shown some willingness to change when faced with mountains of data - but he needs to immediately drop the notion that JJ will ever be an NBA power forward, etc.
    max likes this.
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Daye can't dribble. You can't be a guard if you can't dribble. I would argue that Jerebko is more of a power forward than Daye is a guard. Not that I think Jerebko is a PF.
  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Daye struggles on defense, too.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ben Wallace is currently starting for the Pistons.

    He has 1 game with more than 5 rebounds.
    He has 0 games with more than 4 points.

    Here is his point production this year:
    2, 0, 2, 2, 0, 4, 0, 4, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 0, 2, 0

    So, in 21 games this year, he's averaging about 1.1 points per game.
    He has only scored in consecutive games once, when he strung together back to back 2 point efforts.
    He hasn't had a free throw attempt yet this year.
    He's shooting .387 from the field.
    We score 85 points per 100 possessions with him on the court and give us 102 (17 point deficit)
    He turns it over on 24.4% of the plays that he is involved in, which leads the team.
    His efficiency rating is only ahead of Bynum, Daye, Wilkins, and Russell.

    He still blocks at a pretty nice rate though, basically right on his career average per minute.

    Maxiell is better at this point and should be paired with Monroe instead if we have to add muscle. Ben probably should be used off the bench sparingly or against certain opponents.
    LA Dre likes this.
  16. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If the Pistons had foul to give, then everyone on the floor should have known to be prepared to use it when they had their last time out... Even the coaches should have been yelling in those last 15 seconds.....this was a coaching loss.
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    When one considers what the Bigger Goal is...........that's some GREAT COACHING!!!
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The numbers support what the eyes are seeing. Thanks for the data. It's time for Ben to hang it up. Throw Macklin a few minutes. What's the worst that could happen, the Pistons start winning?
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I was impressed by BK in this one.
    Even though the best thing for 'em is to lose lots of games, I want to see some fire and some will to win out of the young dudes. Monroe and Knight seem like they don't take losing very well and I like that. I've paid attention, and you don't see them having a hug-fest and an ice cream social with the other team after a loss like some of the other cats. ...A couple of half-hearted hand shakes and they walk off the floor with pissed off looks on their faces.

    BK's 3-point spree at the end had a little bit of "Zekeness" to it. The kid was most definately shooting angry and trying to will his team to a win in a very similar way to how #11 used to.
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    No doubt. With the exception of KGREG, most people tend to think BK7 is the real deal.

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