At Washington Wizards Dec. 9th 7:00 PM

Discussion in 'December 2008' started by Dlev59, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    949
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    I'd encourage you to find an escapegoat. Then blame the team's recent failures on him.
  2. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,514
    Likes Received:
    120
    Location:
    tartu
    Flip, where are you when you're truly needed?

    :help2:
  3. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,962
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tampa, Florida
    Did we lose like this though? When was the last time our defense has ever been this bad? Flip Saunders was an excellent regular season coach. I will take that to my grave. He just sucked in the postseason. I think we've been spoiled the past two coaches. We are losing differently and developing some new bad habits. Struggling against an inferior team is much different than getting blown out by one. Seems like Chauncey brought the composure of this team with him to Denver and our coach hasn't been able to replace that effectively on the sidelines or on the court.
  4. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,623
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would say no. Pistons fans are for the last six years are used to winning, so it's kind of hard.

    I just hope we don't go back to another Teal Era.
  5. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Not so much...I understand your point in terms of positive influence, but having 10 minutes of positive influence and then fouling your way back to the bench isn't going to solve the problems with this team (Amir). To be honest, JMax has been spotty at best and has played more like a slow SF than any small PF on most nights. So, I really don't see how dramatically increasing his minutes is going to do much in the long run. He's not eating up rebounds any more than Kwame, but at least we can put Kwame on an opposing center and not have him tossed out of the way .

    How, Curry decides that Kwame has been sub par is beyond me. But, perhaps this year is the year of false promises. For someone to be told they come here with no pressure on them, and promptly start being maligned for not carrying the load is uncomprehendable to me.

    Furthermore, our issues are with sustained effort, execution, and overall motivation/preparedness. None of those things are solved by elevating the status of Amir/Jmax or bannishing Fabio from the Palace. This team is not ready to go most nights. I put that A) on the veterans, because if not for them, who else is prepared to go out and show our younger players how it's done and B) the coaching staff who seem to be using Flip's magic wheel of benching to determine who's fault it is for not getting the job done.

    Contrary to popular believe, coaches DO have to coach effort. They also have to coach execution. As Roscoe stated on the podcast, none of those things are being addressed in a forward manner. They are using the pride card on a bunch of veterans to know better than to pin their hopes on December and young guys who have done nothing to have enough pride in to defend. Accountability appears to be a game of Pin the Tail on the Dunker this year and after many deplorable games the "coach" has often tossed guys under the bus without so much as a tap on the shoulder (something LB got openly flame broiled for in this forum.).

    So, I think there are issues, but A) (...and I can't believe I'm saying this..) The sky ain't falling....yet. and B) "small ball" ain't the problem.
  6. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I may soon come over to your side of the equation, bro. Curry's coaching career may soon turn out to be like his playing career: Waiting for the "Tayshaun Prince" to finally take over.


    Oh...and GET IN THE PODCAST.....NOW! :rant2:
  7. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,030
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Oberlin
    Well, I would argue 1st. that our defense is just plain indisputably worse this year. and 2nd. that we did also get blown out by inferior teams and not just struggle against them.

    Of course, I agree that both coaches and players have not yet effectively responded to the intangible losses entailed by the Chauncey trade (composure, or whatever you want to call it).

    But (to me) very obviously, there is a willingness to experiment here that I applaud and definitely have NOT seen in six years. The experiments may not have yet panned out, and they might not even be the right ones. In fact they probably aren't. But Curry's willingness to experiment, to shuffle, and to try different combinations makes me feel that there's as good a chance as not that he will, eventually, try the combinations that get the most of out of this team. Now, how much that "most" will be, that's another question. It's not likely to be a championship, but I didn't think that was likely anyway (I know others disagree).
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,333
    Likes Received:
    2,690
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I too like the willingness to experiment. Most of my frustration with previous coaches revolved around their refusal to test drive players or mix and match. Until last game, I thought everything Curry did made sense in an exploratory way. With all of the recent losing though and the need to get AI and the boys some confidence, it may have been a decent idea to get some W's before trying the 3 struggling guard attack.
  9. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    832
    Likes Received:
    125
    Location:
    windsor
    theres a line between willingness to push a few buttons to tweak rotations and just plain button mashing the controller. a button pusher has a plan and knows what hes trying to do...a button masher is hoping and praying to accidentally hit something right.
  10. Menace

    Menace Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
    I just watched the game and i must say it looked better then i expected.

    Things i noticed:
    - starting Rip/AI/Stuckey seems to work but with that you create a problem on the (offensive) rebounding end
    - rotation of other players seem to be out of sync with this starting unit
    - Rip seems to be his true self again
    - Rip and AI seem to connect more (even giving high fives)
    - there is more chemistry then a few weeks back

    So some plusses and minusses. But overall the team looks more jelled together with AI.
    MC just needs to sort out a descent rotation and i think the current one aint it.

    What's he gonna do when we play the Lakers or Phoenix again, start Kwame? Who by then might not have seen much playing time and is totally out of sync with the rest of the group. Will be interesting to watch how this all will end up.
  11. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,354
    Likes Received:
    351
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Do you really believe that? We were getting killed in interior defense and offensive boards at it was.

    I thought Maxiel was playing great a few games ago when he lost favor with Curry - So its not his play. What about Amir? Yes he does make some mistakes but he could have provided some athletisism. We seemed to be doing well when he was starting.

    I was one of the biggest Curry supporters but I really do not think he knows what he is doing out there. And way to go in making us a worse team with McDyess. Dyess = no mins for Amir or Maxiel apparently. Yes lets not only suck but also only play guys who will be gone after this year.

    If I did not know any better I would swear Curry is trying to sabatoge the team.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I thought only white guys whiffed on high fives?
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,123
    Likes Received:
    1,982
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    I thought Worm's bum pat was pretty good.

    It was like,

    "Good job"
    "I'm standing behind you"
    "Have you put on weight?"
    and
    "How you doin'?"

    all in one.
  14. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,463
    Likes Received:
    2,404
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Flip's remote must have been stuck between the couch cushions.
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    4,396
    Likes Received:
    515
    Location:
    Flint
    Low, you state small ball is not the problem. Go break down the film from the game, see how Washington scored on us, and tell me small ball is not the problem. Absolutely small ball is the problem. We did not have people in the game capable of defending the middle, Washington attacked our middle relentlessly and destroyed us.

    Again, go rewatch the film. Break down play after play. What do you see? I know, a lot of people think they can just watch a game, never actually study film on what they saw, and think they know what happened. As far as I can tell, you do not know what happened in this game.

    Just a recap though of the first half: We went out to a huge lead to start the game. Which is no sign of the vets coming out slow. We lost the entire lead with Herrmann on the floor, as Washington attacked him many, many times. Curry states we had our best 4 players out there as we lost our lead. Yes, but he fails to mention it does not matter who else you got out there if the other team has a guy like Herrmann they can attack. It pretty much totally negates you otherwise good D.

    But Herrmann was not the only problem. Due to small ball, after that quick start, we could not build the lead, because we could not keep them out of the paint. In the second half, Washington got lazer focused on punishing our middle, and went on a huge run, went ahead of us, before Curry finally addressed the problem. (Not real well, since Dyess and Sheed are as a duo to slow, but its a whole lot better than playing with no power forward.) And for most of the 4th quarter, we went back to small ball.

    Washington continued to punish our middle, one guy after another driving inside on us. Excellent coaching, on Washington's part. Our players valiently fought, but fighting against Washington, and the silliness of their own coach's small ball rotations, they could simply not get it done.

    One more, time, if you want to disagree with me, go study the film first.
  16. Pistons Lover

    Pistons Lover First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    648
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    D-Town, MI
    3rd worst game of the season!!
  17. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    First, things 1st...you do realize that "small ball" got that gigantic lead in the 1st place. So suggesting that "small ball" lost us our lead that we initially gained is at best, a wash and at least, silly.

    2nd this isn't a personal thing because I have no axe to grind with you, but if you believe that I need to sit and rewatch these games for hours on end, you insult my intelligence AND basketball IQ. I know what I saw..I was there when I saw it. So, perhaps giving your DVR a good workout does wonders for you, but I've watched AND played enough basketball in my life to not have to watch a game 6 times to know what happened.

    Honestly, I'd like to know what sparked this personal war with the PT of one Walter Hermann...perhaps a stolen love.....an incident which left you with nothing but green skittles, or brown M&M's maybe? Look, you can rail on Walter all you want, but the Pistons' struggle have not and will NEVER be narrowed down to the actual minutes given to Fabio. You may hate the fact that he was ever allowed in to the United States, but to continue on this inane rant about the fact that Walter Hermann got to take off his warm ups is really challenging what or who most of us thought to be a somewhat enthusiastic if not knowledgeable fan. Please man...let it go....you CAN be better.

    According to your logic, we can't play small ball because we are too short, but we can't play big ball because we're too slow...huh?

    Which is it? In order to be fast, you'll have to get smaller....in order to be big, as you like it, we'd have to be slow.

    So at the end of the day, is your answer that we be somewhat medium speed? Mild height? Everybody 6-9? What would you like? Will being avg speed win us a title?


    Lastly, to suggest that anyone during this game fought valiantly is a slap in the face to anyone with eyes. So, if you'd like a tour of the rewind button...feel free to hit me up my man. I'd be glad to you up with a Universal Rehearsal....until next time...."Be Kind Rewind"....I gotta catch a plane.....I'M OUT!:king:
  18. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    First, things 1st...you do realize that "small ball" got that gigantic lead in the 1st place. So suggesting that "small ball" lost us our lead that we initially gained is a best, a wash and at least, silly.

    2nd this isn't a personal thing because I have no axe to grind with you, but if you believe that I need to sit and rewatch these games for hours on end, you insult my intelligence AND basketball IQ. I know what I saw..I was there when I saw it. So, perhaps giving your DVR a good workout does wonders for you, but I've watched AND played enough basketball in my life to not have to watch a game 6 times to know what happened.

    Honestly, I'd like to know what sparked this personal war with the PT of one Walter Hermann...perhaps a stolen love.....an incident which left you with nothing but green skittles, or brown M&M's maybe? Look, you can rail on Walter all you want, but the Pistons' struggle have not and will NEVER be narrowed down to the actual minutes given to Fabio. You may hate the fact that he was ever allowed in to the United States, but to continue on this inane rant about the fact that Walter Hermann got to take off his warm ups is really challenging what or who most of us thought to be a somewhat enthusiastic if not knowledgeable fan. Please man...let it go....you CAN be better.

    According to your logic, we can't play small ball because we are too short, but we can't play big ball because we're too slow...huh?

    Which is it? In order to be fast, you'll have to get smaller....in order to be big, as you like it, we'd have to be slow.

    So at the end of the day, is your answer that we be somewhat medium speed? Mild height? Everybody 6-9? What would you like? Will being avg speed win us a title?


    Lastly, to suggest that anyone during this game fought valiantly is a slap in the face to anyone with eyes. So, if you'd like a tour of the rewind button...feel free to hit me up my man. I'd be glad to hook you up with a Universal Rehearsal....until next time...."Be Kind Rewind"....I gotta catch a plane.....I'M OUT!:king:
  19. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Sorry about the double post. I'm in DET Metro at 5:48 AM and the 1st thing my laptop did when I refreshed the page after flying from Vegas was repost.
  20. Menace

    Menace Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Messages:
    236
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081210/SPORTS0102/812100476/1127

    The lineup of Wallace, Hamilton, Antonio McDyess, Allen Iverson and Tayshaun Prince gave back almost all of a 17-point lead in the final four minutes of the first half.

    "That was our best unit out there, but they start getting into it with the officials and (the Wizards) wound up being a plus-11," coach Michael Curry said. "That group is too good for anybody to be plus-11 on them in a four-minute stretch."

    So bassically the same group of guys that messed up in NY, and that is his best unit?

    Scary

Share This Page